Seedlings

[freddy]

Hi folks. As a general rule, should one leave seedlings alone until the first 'true' leaves show before potting on ? The reason I ask is because this year I actually followed the instructions for tomato seedlings and the seedling leaf is looking a LOT bigger and healthier. In the past I've always potted on as soon as they were big enough to handle.
Cheers...freddy.

[Elaine]

Hi Freddy. I usually prick them out when the true leaves are just visible and the stems are a bit more sturdy. I've found that if they are left too long, the root system is long and straggly and it is much more difficult to place them into their new home without damaging the roots. Some seedlings are really thin and delicate and I leave these until the true leaves are open.
I hope this is of some help to you.
Cheers.

[oldherbaceous]

Afternoon Freddy, Elaine has said it all really, especially with different seedlings need slightly different timings.

[John]

Take a long look at the seedlings as soon as they come up and decide how many you really need allowing for failures later on. You've probably got far more than you will ever use so thin them out quite ruthlessly by taking out the weakest, as soon as you can get your fingers on them, to give each remaining seedlings a much better chance. Prick out the remaining seedlings later when they are well established with a good first pair of leaves.
If the seedlings are a mixture, say a blend of colours, then don't always leave the strongest when thinning as some colours start more slowly that others.
With tomato seedlings prick them out into pots or modules and set them in the compost as deep as the first leaves - they will root from the buried stem and your final plants will be stronger.

John

[Johnboy]

Hi Elaine,
I notice your method of pricking out as soon as the leaves appear and must say that I cannot agree with it. This means that you are handling the stems which to me is totally wrong. The correct way to handle seedlings is by very lightly handling the leaves. The stems of seedling are extremely tender and are very easily damaged. With most plants that need pricking out, the first leaves that appear are the cotyledons which are the food source of the plant and to damage those can set your plant back a lot. As John so rightly says you should wait just that few days until the first true leaves are established and then do the first transplant to a suitable pot or module by handling the leaves and not the stem.
If you handle Tomato stems you can very seriously damage the plant.
I appreciate that you are eager to give your plants the very best treatment but seedlings must reach the stage when they can be handled without fear of damage.
JB.

[oldherbaceous]

I must say that i would be very suprised if Elaine really is handling her seedlings by the stems, or i'm sure she would be complaining of large loses to her young plants.

[Geoff]

Usually easiest to use modules and, depending on the value of the seed, sow 1, 2 or 3 per module then discard weakest and let the others grow on to the size the module will support. Pot on with a spatula and barely touch the plant.

[oldherbaceous]

I'm starting to use modules a lot more these days Geoff, it does make things simple.

[freddy]

Hi again folks, thanks for the replies. I may have left them too long, as they were difficult to remove from the pot without damaging the roots Hopefully not too much damage done.
This is year 3 for me, so I'm learning all the time. Next year I'll try adding Vermiculite to the mix in an attempt to loosen things up, therefore making it easier to pot on without damaging the roots.

Johnboy, I believe Elaine was referring to the 'true' leaves, not the seedling leaves.

Cheers...freddy.

[Brenjon]

I do things differently. I only sow the amount of seeds that I need as plants. I will sow about 8 F1 seeds in a seed tray or individually in 3 inch.. pots. I will then leave them alone with only a slight feed of vitax Q4 until they are 6/8 tall and then pot them on into a large bucket of home made compast ,manure at the bottom etc. This is then their permanent position. There is less disturbance of the plants,. less time potting on and this has proved succesful for me in the past. I hate the prospect of sowing more expensive seeds Than I need and.. discarding the weaker ones. Perhaps 2 more than I need in case of failure but that is all. What do others think of this.
Regards Brenjon

[Primrose]

I tend to follow Brenjon's habit and only sow the number of seeds I need, plus a few spares to accommodate for failures to germinate, especially with F1 tomato seeds like Ferline which are expensive. With me it's also an emotional thing because I find it very difficult to destroy young seedlings which have just made the effort to germinate.
Having said that, I don't know why I'm so sparing with tomato seeds as I seem to have acquired so many freebie packets of tomato seed that knowing their longevity, they'll probably last out the remainder of my growing days
I'm sowing my Ferlines in a tray this year because I'm growing enough of them to do so, but because I'm growing several different varieties, I'll probably sow the remainder individually in pots because sooner or later I'll get them all mixed up and lose track of which variety is which if I have to keep transplanting them. So it's easier to stick a label in a pot from Day 1. I've sown my tumblers already but hope that by sowing the remainder later than I normally do, I'll avoid previous year's legginess and the need to transplant on before planting out.

[Elaine]

Hi JB. OH is quite right...I never handle seedlings by their stems. I knew I hadn't expressed myself very well.

I wait to prick them out, until the first true leaves have emerged and gently hold them by one of the seed leaves. The reference to stems was regarding how some seedlings are more robust than others....the finer the stem, the longer I wait before pricking out.

Thanks OH and sorry Freddy, if I confused you at all.

Cheers.

PS. Just come back from holiday, so am catching up with posts.

[Suzie]

I was interested to see Toby on GW last week, when he was pricking out he used a pencil and explained why the root goes every which way but into the soil - he rubbed the pencil on his jeans and the root went straight into the hole without trying to grab the sides of the soil. Blimey!

[Elaine]

I use one of my old artist's brushes for pricking out....the wooden end for making the hole, the sable brush end for easing the seedling into the hole.
Cheers.