ALLOTMENTS AND MINORS (NOT MINERS)

[Compo]

Hi folks

There was an earlier post on allotment allocation and the perennial problem of time wasters, we have had a chap who when he has his butt kicked keeps his allotment well and grows a good variety of produce, but the committee have got fed up with him having too many 'fallow' periods on his plot, but when he is pushed he digs it and keeps on top of it.

At the AGM (we only have 29 full plots about half of which are split into half plots) they voted in a motion that relatives / children of plot holders need to be 18 before they can be on site unsupervised to dig their parent or uncle's / grandparent's plots etc. This was specifically to stop the above mentioned plot holder from using his 16 year old to dig his plot when he (the plotholder) is unable to. Bizarrely this rule about being over 18 was passed.

I have a feeling this is illegal in some way given that 16 year olds can work / smoke / get married / have sex / procreate etc. Out of interest we run our own show but we are answerable to the parish council and the district council own the land.

Any ideas, I think we/they are on dodgy ground and cannot find out what the allotment act says?

CoMpO

[peter]

Compo, actually you might have been on dodgier ground than you thought under health and safety, plus CRB rules in allowing unaccompanied 16 year olds in.

At any rate those could be used as justifications, so when are you moving to "No under 21's."?
You'll be locked out yourself then, was 29th Feb your birthday wasn't it?

[Compo]

I can't fully ynderstand your explanation Peter your a big lacking on detail in your post. But surely if someone can work, and have a family he must be entitled to have a plot in his own right? Therefore barring a seventeen year old from helping his Dad on the same grounds don't add up...........can you clarify further?

[peter]

Current law on children / adults seems to use whichever of 16 or 18 in rather arbitary ways.
e.g. You can smoke but not drink.
The old qualification of 21 does not seem to be recognised anywhere now, other than for entry to drinking establishments. Which is a shame in some ways given the levels of emotional maturity displayed by many eighteen year olds.

In some ways you are safer with a no U18's rule and I was pointing that out in a light hearted manner.

Where would the committee (or council) stand legally if an unaccompanied 15 year old using Dad's strimmer took his eye out or put a fork through his foot?
Would it be much different if he was 16?
16 is the age when you are at school taking GCSE's, therefore a schoolchild and that is how many people view 16.
If he is 18 then he is fully adult in the eyes of the law and most of the population.
Under 16 gets you into the realm of responsible adults, CRB checks etc.

My council site rules are that children must be supervised, doesn't explicitly state what age they cease being children though.

[glallotments]

Are you a member of NSALG as their legal department would give advice?

[Elaine]

In my humble opinion, all children (under 16 years of age) should be supervised by a responsible adult, when on an allotment site.

There are a couple of plot holders on our site, who bring their grandchildren with them, then let them roam about unsupervised for the entire length of time they are on site. One lassie whizzes around on a bike and came a cropper, riding it down the rather narrow (foot)path between our plot and our neighbours,(both fenced) resulting in our fence being broken. Fortunately, she escaped with scratches but the consequences could have been much worse! If she had impaled herself on the broken fence, who would have been liable?

The majority of folk who bring their children and grandchildren with them are responsible and the said youngsters are usually helping on the plot, which is wonderful and to be wholeheartedly encouraged. It is lovely to see youngsters enjoying learning about growing food and having a legitimate excuse to get "mucky"!!
Cheers.

[IanNW]

I'm a bit touchy on this one as i take my 7 and 3 year old daughters with me to the Allotment, put in mind they are usually watched over pretty closely and enjoy digging and watching the plants(mainly weeds as it is a brand new reclaimed plot) mature.

I dug the trenches they pulled the weeds out and put them in a pile on the footpath ready to be composted. Put in mind i see them as still being in the age of innocence and am trying to teach them enjoyment of the outdoors and learning some basic skills, and not become couch potatoes.

How do you expect youngsters to have an enjoyment and show interest if you ban them from a site at an early age.
By excluding them from something you enjoy and by not passing on skills which will benefit them in later life.
I can agree that people who bring there children along and leave them unsupervised should receive a warning first and then go onto banning them from bringing children along if no improvement is seen.
As to CRB checks, the way I see it is that person has rented the land, they are bringing along their own children therefore are under the due care and attention of the direct guardians negating the need for CRB checks otherwise every single person in the UK would need a CRB check.

Christ that sounds like a rant.

[sparhawkiw]

I joined the Armed Forces at 16 (in 1983) & my first H.M.S. at sea at 17... & so could have been called to go into action, so not to have been allowed onto an allotment unescorted as I might put a prong through my foot I would have thought was a bit extreme...

[oldherbaceous]

I totally agree with the last two posts, kids really do benifit from the allotment experience.

Anyway i had my own plot of allotment when i was 13, and i think a few celebrity gardeners did as well.

But i do agree that children shouldn't be tearing about on other peoples plots.

[Binky]

The initial query seemed to relate to an unsupervised (unaccompanied) 16 year old working a plot. Compo also said

Out of interest we run our own show but we are answerable to the parish council and the district council own the land.

So, either the site management team or the parish or district council will have taken out public liability insurance. The insurers should be able to tell you where you stand on this.

[Gerry]

Dear OH,

You missed out the word "Other" from between "few" and "celebrity".

Regards, Gerry.

[oldherbaceous]

Dear Gerry, you have just shot to the top of my Christmas card list.