Feedback on peat/peat-free compost trials

[Tony Hague]

NB, Tony - everyone. Homemade compost is not the answer. Joe Public can't make their own.

Erm, why not ? Joe public can get a subsidised darlek composter from the council, and throw into it their kitchen and garden waste In six months time and sieve what ls left. What I do is not much more complicated than that - in fact that is just what DS and I are doing in my avatar picture. For a potting compost for tomatoes and peppers, mix in 1/3 grit of some sort and use. Simple. I have grown tomatoes, same varieties, side by side in New Horizons and compost made as described above, with no discernable difference in results.

Now, as I have said, for delicate seeds something better might be needed - but usually in modest quantities.

[Colin Miles]

Tony - maybe I am being cynical but that strikes me as asking a bit too much of Joe Public. Wait 6 months? Sieve?

[Johnboy]

Hi Tony,
We are asked by Captain Carrot to think of ways of attracting and helping new gardeners and could you hand on heart say that you think your suggestion would be one of the ways to do this?
Apart for the fact that it would take considerably longer to get the fine mixture you talk of do you think that it would be the best way? I'm afraid I do not agree with your suggestion. Joe Public would simply say sod that it's easier to go down the supermarket.
To get back into the realms of reality; a standard particle size or specially designed grades of seeding compost which means the end of multipurpose.
As it stands too many people will get very poor results and become disheartened and simply pack up gardening.
I feel that the seed houses have their part to play in this as well.
JB.

[Johnboy]

Do you hear the deafening silence from those who only a few weeks ago were advocating that the non-peat products on the market are perfectly adequate?
I have decided to give these advocates of non-peat products a challenge.
I would like you to grow for me some Begonia Semperflorens using your so called wonderful non-peat compost. (Just to make the challenge interesting I will tell you that there are 70,000 Begonia Semperflorens seeds to the gram) This is because you are trying to inflict this on to the horticultural trade so lets see how clever you are at using this disgusting rubbish.
To be seen to be fair I will give you until the spring of 2015.
JB.
Edited to read Semperflorens and not Sempervirens.

[alan refail]

Hi Johnboy

Hear, hear! to your comments on home-made compost. I often feel that people who claim to make all their own compost for soil improvement and sowing/potting mixes must either have very large compost bins or very small gardens. It doesn't do any newcomers to growing any favours to adopt the Hey presto! line; just bung it all in a small composter and in six months you'll have all you need. That is to mislead people as surely as the gardening programmes and articles which plug the "growing your own is so easy" line.

Yes, I too had noticed the silence from certain quarters. I don't expect your challenge will get much of a take-up

[Tony Hague]

With due respect, I don't believe we need to attract new gardeners. There are loads of them. Of the sort that take on a lotty, shove in some seeds, vanish for six months then come back, get disappointed and give up. The plot next door to mine has gone through almost one a year.

What we need to do is ensure that those starting out know that it takes time and work on the plot, not money at the garden centre. If you can't be bothered making compost with your kitchen and garden waste, you are not much of a gardener IMHO. It really need not be hard.

[Colin Miles]

Tony - with all due respect this isn't a very sensible suggestion. You could say the same about virtually any activity and noone would do anything new. If any activity is to flourish and develop then newcomers need help. Yes - there is always a big dropout with any activity but the more difficult the start is made the fewer will take it up in the end. Saying that you have to wait at least 6 months before doing anything is not exactly very encouraging and gives a bad impression both of the activity and the people who do it.

[Tony Hague]

Gardening is not a hobby for the impatient. Plants take time to grow. If you can't wait six months you'd never plant a fruit tree. If you encourage the impatient to take it up, they will inevitably give up.

If you are in a hurry, don't like hard work, want to buy in everything to make it as easy and reliable as possible, you will probably do yourself, and the environment, a favour by sticking with the supermarket.

[Colin Miles]

Tony - of course the impatient will give up. They will probably give up whatever they try. But the rest deserve as much help as possible. Why dampen their enthusiasm by putting unnecessary obstacles in their way? Good homemade compost isn't the easiest thing to achieve, even for experienced gardeners. And creating a multipurpose compost from that as good as peat, or non-peat....?

[alan refail]

Tony

Have a look at these pictures and then recommend home made compost

viewtopic.php?p=95014#p95014

viewtopic.php?p=95015#p95015

[Tony Hague]

From the pictures and the ingredients, I suspect that your homemade compost is not that far from the bought peat free composts, and I suspect that the poor results are down to (a) too much uncomposted wood waste or (b) possibly too much N from the chicken manure and (c) a watering regime adapted to the spongy nature of peat.

It is worth noting that both Vital Earth and New Horizons do peat free seed and cutting composts, with finer texture and lower nutrient levels. These might give better results than the multipurpose.

[glallotments]

NB, Tony - everyone. Homemade compost is not the answer. Joe Public can't make their own.

Erm, why not ?

We can make nothing like the quantity of compost that we need!

[Johnboy]

Before this all gets out of hand and flies off at a tangent and the usual infighting begins shall we pause and consider what has been proven.
Both Alan and Colin have been kind enough to share the results of their own experiments. We as contributors to this forum have now witnessed the kind of results that we must begin to expect should peat be finally banned.
We all have our own ideas as to how we will try and cope and to try and improve using non-peat products.
Basically I think that people would welcome a standard to which the manufacturers must adhere and for myself this would be to stop them using wood that has not been composted properly to bulk out the product. I am begining to think that this probably lies at the heart of the problem. Particle sizes are for too large and there is insufficient actual composted material which would aid root formation. Because the manufacturers are being bullied to produce everything to suit the organic market is not helping.
Continuity of production appears to be missing and virtually no two bags seem to be the same so you might buy one bag and find that you do quite favourably so you go and buy a couple more bags and they are completely different and your results are entirely different. Then what do you do. Change brands to find the same thing to happen again. This really again points towards a standard being adopted.
I feel that DEFRA should be taking their part more seriously because if they insist on banning something then they should be made to assure that there is a viable consistent alternative available. At present this is not happening.
I am rather amazed at the dialogue with Tony at present because it is not really helping the situation at all.
Let us try and unit to come to a sensible conclusion rather than give the anti-peat lobby the opportunity of staying out of the debate. Lets face it it is because of them that the problem has arisen!
JB.

[KGAdmin]

@Johnboy

I'm not sure why you seem 'amazed' by some posts - they form part of this interesting topic. I am also unaware of any 'anti-peat lobby' - so I'd appreciate you keeping such provocative language out of posts on the KG forum.

KGAdmin

[Colin Miles]

Frankly amazed that admin find JB provocative in this instance - indeed, admin post really annoyed me. But back to the topics in hand.

The fact that an experienced gardener like Alan failed with his homemade compost surely makes the point about the inpracticality of inexperienced gardeners even trying. I can understand Tony's exasperation with those newcomers who clearly haven't a clue and never will - I experienced this when being 'in charge' of an allotment site. When a newcomer came along I spoke to them and tried to advise them, even went to the extent of producing a 2 page guide - and tried to keep some of the vacant plots from becoming too overgrown.

Some people will have been waiting for months or even years before they are offered a plot. They may have lost their initial enthusiasm, they may have it revived. Either way they need help. As Tony says, gardening is hard work, but that is no reason to make it more difficult than it need be.