Jeyes Fluid

[Redfox]

Has any one ever used Jeyes fluid to sterilize the soil on their allotments?

[Nature's Babe]

Hi Redfox. Jeyes fluid recommend it for cleaning and disinfecting tools but it is no longer recommended for sterilising soil. Why would you want to kill off everything in the soil, there are beneficial microbes too.
You could try caliente mustard as a bio-fumigant, after growing it and cutting it you need to incorporate it into the soil immediately or you lose the fumigant effect into the air. this will benefit by adding nutrients in the soil too

[Redfox]

Thanks for that NB.
will try what you say.
I think I have got the dreaded white rot on my onions, so trying to find the best way to sterilize the soil. I don't want to get rid of all the good things in the soil just the bad.

[Nature's Babe]

There is a thread here on white onion rot, you might discover more help there.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9841

[Geoff]

As I have said before, I'm amazed by the enthusiasm with which caliente mustard has been adopted. I wonder if it wasn't being generated in this way would fumigation with methyl isothiocyanate be acceptable? Compare this with other "natural" products that are now banned like nicotine and pyrethrum.

[Cider Boys]

Good point Geoff, I wonder if you will receive an answer.

Barney

[Nature's Babe]

If they are banned they are banned, we have to move with the times.

[Gerry]

As Johnboy has said on a number of occasions, some of these things, and I think Jeyes Fluid is one of them, are only banned because the manufacturers would not pay the extortionate price to re-licence them.

Regards, Gerry.

[alan refail]

As Johnboy has said on a number of occasions, some of these things, and I think Jeyes Fluid is one of them, are only banned because the manufacturers would not pay the extortionate price to re-licence them.

Regards, Gerry.

Absolutely correct, Gerry.

As for caliente mustard about which I know very little: how does the methyl isothiocyanate it releases distinguish between beneficial microbes and baddies?

[peter]

Minor correction, Jeyes fluid is not banned per se, it was reformulated removing (I believe) coal tar from the ingredients.
The new product is not licenced as a soil sterilising agent, as stated by Gerry & Alan, but can be legally used for any purpose stated on the can.

[Nature's Babe]

Jeyes are not a struggling small company, I wonder why they didn't licence it for that if it is OK to use, could it be because they realised it wouldn't pass muster ? I guess Jeyes would work its way through the soil affecting deeper layers and enter the water. From what I understand caliente only works in the top layer and adds nutrients to the soil. So far fortunately I have had no garden problems requiring me to use either.

[Johnboy]

Hi NB,
If Caliente Mustard was to sterilize just the top layer, whatever that is, it would not be much use as a soil fumigant.
I appreciate that in your method of gardening you do not use such things
but there are times when a pest has got a hold in certain circumstances the only way to grow anything is to clear that area of bugs of all sorts and start again.
Jeyes fluid performed that task for a very long time and then when the government in their wisdom decided that if a product had more than one use it had to have separate licences for each facet of use it was decided by the manufacturers not to relicense it as a soil fumigant. So Jeyes fluid was not banned at all. It still has the same qualities but no licence so it then becomes an illegal substance for soil sterilizing.
Armillatox, the only effective treatment against Honey Fungus, is now not licenced for use on the land and because it has no licence it is an illegal substance for use on the land.
I am unaware that Jeyes Fluid or Armillatox have been reformulated in any way.
JB.

[peter]

Despite retaining its smell Wrights Coal Tar soap now contains nothing deriving from coal.
From its smell I'd always assumed Jeyes contained coal tar derivatives, the data sheet & wikipedia say it contains tar acids, now whether they are derived from coal or Athabasca (the tar sands of) I know not.
The firm itself proves me wrong by stating that Jeyes fluid has never been changed......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeyes_Fluid
http://www.jeyes.co.uk/aboutjeyes.htm

Composition
E 4-CHLORO-M-CRESOL
TAR ACIDS, (POLY)ALKYLPHENOL 28 FRACTION
PROPAN-2-OL
TERPINEOL
It has a pH of between 8.0-10.0.

[Geoff]

A couple of links
http://www.plantsolutionsltd.com/caliente.htm
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ME/methyl_isothiocyanate.html