Peat, Compost, the Somerset Levels & the RSPB

[Nature's Babe]

Peat bog is a habitat, as we have covered the globe and in the process destroyed so much of other creatures habitat surely our grandchildren will be pleased if we conserve what is left of the wildlife that survives, that reason alone should be sufficient to encourage us to use sustainable methods in the garden, in my own garden, there is room for nature and the soil structure is excellent, topsoil depth and moisture holding capacity has been improved too ... all without the use of any peat at all ... just compost and mulch. Before you say you can't make enough I say where there is a will there is a way. There are endless sources, autumn collect leaves to rot down, plant vines, grape and kiwi, that will shed leaves, clean saw dust without chemicals is fine, lawn clippings, kitchen vegetable waste, coffee grounds from the coffee shop waste from the greengrocer, fish heads and trimmings from the fishmonger, ( bury it with a layer of soil, and it won't smell ] seaweed collected after high tides etc, no doubt you could all think of more. If your neighbours don't grow their own give them a bucket to fill with their vegetable waste, help stop their bin overflowing, and save on landfill. Even my pots are filled with a mix of soil and compost. It seems shortsighted indeed to say only peat will do the job !

[Compo]

Nature's babe, as the American's say 'way to go' . I do all of that (did not think of the fish) I also use newspaper and Card as mulch, not pretty but on the allotment it is very practical.

Today on the plot a few of the regulars were bragging about their cheap gro-bags (70p) they were brought from a retailer in Westhay (look it up if you like). The biggest peat extraction site in Somerset.

So I said it is peat, they said no it is organic compost, we looked carefully on the bag, 98% peat, 2% mixed fibres / sand and other nutrients. I dont and wont buy it, i have fantastic veg and buy FYM peat free compost etc.

Drive around the Sedgemoor part of the somerset levels and tell me it is pretty cos it ain't. Buy peat and you are about as natural as concrete.

CoMpO

[Nature's Babe]

That may be so Alan, I realised what you were saying, but for me personally and it looks like Compo too, that is purely academic as I prefer to use other options and not cause any further destruction of peat habitat at all. I just wished to share with others how easy it is to manage without peat and still improve soil depth, structure, and fertility in a sustainable way, while also helping to reduce landfill.

[Compo]

And me too, it aint good to keep using it, leave it where it is and use something else, as I said come down to Somerset,ithat the peat extraction has made, it aint pretty. As far as I am able to see Alan your argument is merely semantics, the answers make no difference to the general issue. But you can have the debate if you want but it wont change the overall issue.

CoMpO

[alan refail]

Nature's Babe and Compo

I'll add you to the list of people who don't know the answers, along with John Walker and the RSPB

No, Compo, my argument is not "merely semantics". I was actually trying to dig out the facts behind the emotional pleas.

I am not in favour of unlimited exploitation and use of peat; what I do have an interest in are all the implications of both use and restriction.

The following views echo similar concerns for facts and truth:

http://www.landscapejuice.com/2011/03/p ... .html#more

A quote from the beginning of the article:

The issue of peat bogs is an international problem but the information being disseminated is very local and opaque resulting in the real issues not being understood and the potential for action without being assured of the reaction!

I will not pretend to understand every aspect of the current situation or to have a solution but do understand that our government/public bodies and peat owners/exploiters are failing to communicate successfully with the public and are thus relying on an emotive rather than an analytical response thus confounding a building block of democracy-education!

The rest of the article is well worth considering, as are the author's credentials.

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,
As I see it is that Alan is really only trying to establish the truth.
There are so many blind alleys that the anti-peat lobby sent people down.
For certain the anti Peat lobby are are not telling the truth and when you consider that the ban on the peat use is for England only this is all a storm in a teacup.
I might remind you that if you begin anything with a false premiss then the answer will always be incorrect. There are statistics being bandied about by the anti peat lobby and Alan is merely trying to establish the truth.
Mining of anything when work is ongoing is not a pretty sight and Peat extraction is no exception.
Have you ever seen the mining for Iron Ore to make steel for your motorcar and mining of stone to make the road that your motor car runs on well they are not a pretty sights either but when the mining operation is over the sites are landscaped they are more beautiful than they were before mining began.
I, like Alan, would not ban the use of Peat but severely restrict the use to make other products gardener friendly because at present non peat products are frankly a disgrace.
Take countries like Sweden and Finland that burn Peat for electricity because they have a super abundance of Peat and their Governments can calculate how much peat is made during any given year and do not allow more that about three quarters to be taken the following year.
So peat is not endangered worldwide as is made out by the anti peat campaigners.
We could import Peat from these countries if our peat is so endangered but a ban would prevent that and to me this is simply down to the Aaaargh factor which is no way to conduct anything.
DEFRA admit that they know that the statistics are incorrect so why do they continue to proceed with the ban until the truth is known.
Alan is in pursuit of the truth and power to his elbow!
JB.

[Cider Boys]

I find it strange that Compo thinks the Somereset Levels and Moors are not pretty, may I suggest that Compo is somewhat in a minority regarding his point of view.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/handsonnature/wetl ... vels.shtml

This to me is a beautiful landscape (not a theme park, but a rural working lasndscape) that I was fortunate to be born in and have lived and worked in all my life, created by the drainage of this area by Somerset folk to dig their peat, grow their willows and make their cider.

If people do not wish to use peat, then good for them if it makes them feel better, but leave those who appreciate the virtue of Sedge Peat to dig and use it. Incidentally Sedge peat is far better than sphagnum types in that it has more available humus and nitrogen.

Barney

[Compo]

I live on the levels Barney, have done for over ten years, I am aware of what a rural working environment looks like, it is my back yard, the reclaimed nature reserves are good for wildlife and revenue and tourism.

But there has to be a limit. If you know the area as well as you say you do Barney, you will surely know that on Sedgemoor (East of Bridgwater as opposed to South and West of Bridgwater) they are always saying we will dig no more after this, then they get a further licence and another extension. I know this is not what the levels naturally looked like originally. They were drained many hundreds of years ago, Kings Sedgemoor drain was built in the 16th Century to provide drainage for the village of Chedzoy, the monks of St Dunstan started the work earlier. And draining of the levels preceeds the writing of the domesday book. So please dont tell me I dont know MY facts. But I have an opinion and do not like to be

I grow all my seeds and pots and tubs in peat free compost, mainly wood from sustainable forests. The difference is that we cannot replant peat, once it has gone it has gone. I know about roads John boy, Iron ore and open face coal mines and all of that, I sometimes feel that you think we are uneducated fools who do not read up and know our facts. I do not drive around with my eyes open and have travelled the world originally by way of 26 years in the armed forces.

I feel that there are good alternatives and that your comment that the replacement products are a disgrace a little over exaggerated for effect. In my part of Sedgemoor, I feel we have had enough extracted and to keep taking it is enough for the environment around here. The land should be allowed to heal and nature allowed to take over again.

The industry that is garden centres, high intensity nurseries, and cheap growbags will find an alternative, they always do. The facts will be re manipulated by both sides of the lobby, as they are on this very website. There may well be some sites where more peat can be extracted. Barney take a drive between Westhay and Burtle and tell me that the whole area should continue to be lowered making it a swamp that it was once reclaimed from. I am not anti peat, but some areas need a break and I believe that this particular site is one of them.

I personally rest my case and await with interest the presentation of any new facts with interest. There are certain folk on here that have to crush opposite opinion with an inability to empathise with the others views, something which I find unpleasant personally. I recognise the need for low cost, high quality products for the growing industry, but please come and look at this particular area and try and tell me that we should keep on taking out from this particular somerset site.

[Nature's Babe]

I think my answer was plain Alan, and I do know what I believe, whether your answer is more or less than 1% , for me it makes no difference, personally I feel that nature deserves a break from loss of natural habitat, we have a responsibility to future generations, Well said Compo.

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,

I do not drive around with my eyes open and have travelled the world originally by way of 26 years in the armed forces.

On your quote I make absolutely no comment.
I too was 25 years in the armed forces and from your previous comments I understood you to be an ex sub-mariner!
JB.

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,
Before you go off the deep end I am pulling your leg!
JB.

[Compo]

I admit to being a tad sensitive as it is all going on a few miles outside my back window, but am unable to retract anything. Leg pulling welcome JB

CoMpO

[Cider Boys]

Oh dear Compo, my post was only in reply to you stating that the Levels ain't pretty. I seem to have touched a raw nerve - I only suggested that you may be in a minority with your view. However, I do appreciate many newcomers do need time to understand the landscape and traditions of us locals.

Best wishes

Barney

[Cider Boys]

Some points of view that some may find interesting:

http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/home ... ticle.html

Barney

[Lurganspade]

.

The last crowd I would expect an honest answer from are either the RSPB or RSPCA.

The rspb deny that raptors or magpies HAVE any impact on the song bird population!
Next doors and my garden play host to lots of birds of all shapes and sizes, unfortunately it get visited (passed over) quite regularly by a sparrow hawk which quite often goes off with a meal!
Blackbirds , robins and wrens nest everyyear in some part of our gardens, but never reared any young to maturity, because of magpies.
Then a pair of carrion crows moved into a tree at the rear of our gardens, result, the magpies were hounded out as well as the wood pigeons and every year since we have had young birds.
The blackbirds are nesting now in a very open position in ivy, only can hope!

The rspca say you cannot control badgers as that will only make the rest scatter and spread TV elsewhere(though they also deny that badgers have TB).
With foxes it is the opposite, if you control them others will only move in in their place!
They cannot have it both ways.

So to ask the rspb wether a midge or mosquito invested bog is more important than farmland and ordinary peoples livelihoods, just look what they are doing in the East of England breaching sea defences to flood good farmland, truely evil!