"Proper seed" or import-it-yourself??

[Garlic_Guy]

In the earlier thread called "Shallots", there was a lengthy discussion about whether it was a good idea to bring stuff back from France, or to buy it from official sources in this country. See viewtopic.php?t=270&start=15

Apart from any general distrust of "foreigners" this also brought up the question of whether there were risks of importing bugs along with any nice stuff from foreign lands. This made me think, because I have grown garlic for around 10 years and have always followed the advice to buy "stock that is certififed as virus-free".

Together with the advice about rotating garlic for up to 6 years (to prevent the build-up of pests) I always assumed this seemed sensible. However, the official line seemed to involve paying quite a lot for the "proper" stuff:


In the meantime, I saw lots of posts from people who planted the stuff from their local supermarket:



So what do you all think?

I have recently grown to love "Longue" or banana shallots. The ones available from seed merchants seem to be titchy things, barely an inch or so long. Meanwhile my local indian greengrocer sells ones that are up to 4" long - minimal peeling effort & maximum flavour. There are probably some good ones available in France too. I'd love to plant some of these, but have held back so far.

Any views on whether I might risk introducing something into my allotment that I will later regret?

[Chantal]

I was under the impression that garlic bought from JS is less likely to grow well as it's imported from Spain and therefore requires a hotter climate to grow properly. IoW garlic is bred for the English climate.

[cliff_the_gardener]

Seed sold in the UK and in EU member states are supposed to conform to standard regulations. This basically means that the seed has been checked to see that it will germinate to a specified percentage.

Much of the seed sold in the UK isn't from plants grown in the UK but from the other side of the world. On Thompson & Morgan packs it even tells you where it comes from. It might be packed here - some veggies mught be grown but most of the seed companies work if finding growers who will grow their varieties in favourable climates.

Commercial seed is clean, the likely hood of disease from it is low. That you collect whilst having a walk, and pick a handful is the one where you are likely to bring something along. Most likely insects in the other plant material.

Garlic and the likes - well it will grow, but is most like to have come from a country that is much warmer than ours. If you buy seed garlic, you are buying a known variety that will perform here. The same is true of the shallots.

It doesn't mean they wont grow, just the results could be variaable - might be outstanding - could be poor.

Then again thats gardening not agriculture

Pays your money and all that

Clifford

[Jenny Green]

Wow that garlic is expensive!! Shop elsewhere!
Seriously, what I do is buy certified seed then save the largest cloves to replant. I can tell whether a plant is growing healthily or not; I don't need a government official to certify my self saved stock.
I did use supermarket garlic once and that was the only year my garlic failed. You get what you pay for.
As for sowing/planting stuff you've bought abroad, it's my understanding that most of it comes from abroad anyway. If the commercial seed suppliers can do it, why can't we? It seems to me the only risk you're taking is the same as if you used our own supermarket produce as planting material, and lots of that is imported too.
Being foreign doesn't make it dirty, you know!

[mazmezroz]

I planted J Sains. garlic last year, and it was fab. So you just can't tell.... Have done the same this year, so watch this space.

My sister-in-law has planted butternut squash seeds from a bought BNS this month which has germinated nicely - will be interesting to see if they fruit

[Anonymous]

Been to our local Netto today, and bought a string of garlic for £1.99. There are 14 wonderful looking bulbs to the string, which work out at less than 15p per bulb.

We do have garlic growing in the garden, but at this price, wonder whether it is worth the effort!

valmarg

[Jenny Green]

Ah, Val. Do we only grow our own produce to save money? I don't. I grow it so that I know where it's come from and what's been done to it, so that I can eat high quality veg and fruit straight from the garden, so that the environment hasn't been polluted in getting the produce to me, and so that I can indulge in a hobby I love.
Someone said something similar to me once. He said, when you can buy a sack of onions for £2 it isn't worth growing your own. I replied that I didn't want that sack of onions, I wanted MY onions!

[richard p]

supermarket veg generally has been sprayed so many times during its production and washed it is unlikely to be carrying any viruses or diseases. the biggest risk ironically is from locally home grown stuff on market stalls and car boots especially if it still has mud attached. if it looks ify dont touch it. some supermarket stuff , spuds for example, is treated with a sprouting suppressant to extend shelf life. on the other hand some commercial seed (commonly sweetcorn , beans)has fungicides etc on it which u may or may not object to. u can only make an individual informed decision yourself.

[pigletwillie]

I buy a large proportion of my seeds etc from Thompson & Morgan.

I checked today and found out that my heat treated Red onion sets are from Holland and My sweetcorn is from Argentina. They have always performed well in the past as I presume that they do so because the original growing locations are compatible to ours but perhaps with less variable weather conditions than here, thus generally guaranteeing a seed crop.

We go to Normandy in northern France where the weather is pretty much like ours, the winters are probably colder if our December visit was anything to go by. Last August we brought home really long banana shallots and garlic bulbs from the local market (St Lo) All of the stall holders were selling either their own produce or that produced very very locally. The stallholder I purchased my goods from grew all his own produce for sale and informed us that none of his crops were sprayed. I believed him as you could see some insect damage on lettuce etc. The stall was fresher than any market I had seen in England and he was proud of his produce and quite rightly so. His banana shallot seed came from a relative in Britanny and he had grown his own from that for about 10 years. His family had grown garlic for many years and continuously reselected the best to grow the next year.

The upshot of it is that I have 4 raised beds full of banana shallots that are rampaging away (Peter the pumpkin man has been sent a few for him to trial as well) and 2 beds full of the best garlic that I have seen anybody grow let alone myself for this time of year.

The cost, well 2Kg of self selected banana shallots cost 2.5 euros (£1.70) and 6 garlic bulbs 25c each (£1).

Self sufficiency in seed etc is a way of life in France and indeed Italy, it seems we are the only country to give up our seed heritage and rely on big seed growers to give us seeds that really only perform at their best when grown in a highly intensive farming environment.

If this interests you take a look at the "real seed company" website.

[Carole B.]

I started 'saving my own' a few years ago when I just couldn't afford to buy shallots and seed spuds etc and I progressed to toms,drying beans and last year onion seed.We seem to have been brainwashed in this country into believing that our own stuff will be riddled with disease and it is more work keeping things apart where needed to prevent cross-pollination etc.but it is very satisfying.
I've just germinated some Roma toms from the one plant that didn't get blight last year so I might even get something better than the seed companies sell!
Not all garlic in the supermarkets is from Spain checkout the local greengrocer and you might find some English ones.I have the advantage of living on the Isle of Wight so I just selected some heads of local produce sold for eating and have grown them on from there.

[Anonymous]

Consider myself suitably chastised, Jenny, but at the moment we have no garlic left from last year, and of course the stuff in the garden is not going to be ready for a few months.

We are very limited as to what we can grow, only having the small back garden. There are no allotments in the village at all, and I really envy you all that have them. We would have to travel more than five miles to get one. Certainly onions and potatoes are not an option.

We do of course grow for taste, freshness and the fact that we know what has been done to the plants.

If you read the books:-

Not on the Label by Felicity Lawrence
Shopped by Joanna Blythman

it would put you off a lot of supermarket shopping. There are a lot of things I have stopped buying from supermarkets since reading them.

I am normally a meticulous supermarket label reader to see where produce has come from. Having read the previous posts, and having assumed the garlic I had bought from Netto was from Europe, I read the very small print on the label. China would you believe, all those ruddy airmiles!!! I just hope it hasn't got bird flu.

valmarg

[Jenny Green]

I didn't want to chastise you Val, just putting a different point of view.
I wish I could fly to China on the cheap airfare those garlic had!

[Garlic_Guy]

Thanks to everyone for their views. I think some good stuff has been raised here.

However my main interest is not whether seed/garlic sets from abroad is inherently dodgey, but whether there's any real risk of bringing bugs/viruses back when sourcing the stuff yourself. Of course, I'd expect the commercial suppliers to comply with any import regulations & checks.

Finally, I am very jealous of Pigletwillie and his French shallots. I'm quite sure that the stuff he saw was probably grown with similar love & attention that we would do in our our gardens & allotments.

[pigletwillie]

Garlic Guy,

If my crop is successful, would you like me to send you a few of these?

Dont get too Green eyed now

[Guest]

If my crop is successful, would you like me to send you a few of these?

Does Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall have an enormous smallholding?


No don't answer that. But yes, I'd be happy to help you propogate these throughout the country.

I have to say that, having laboured over traditional shallots (which many people seem to just just end up pickling) this sort are perfect for cooking. Great tasting and easy to peel.

Yes, I'd be very grateful for some. Or maybe I could help finance your next trip to St Lo (is that St Malo, or somewhere else?) and get a bagful?!

Colin