Government consultation on phasing out peat use

[sarahscottdavies]

Hello everyone.

Am new to this forum, though have been reading kitchen garden magazine for a couple of years and growing fruit and veg for around 12 years.

I understand there is a lot of misinformation out there, especially that which is pedalled by those who will financially profit by getting people on side, so I would like to share my views...these come from education and experience, and not because I will benefit in any way from getting people on my side.

My education is studying for a degree in Biology, were I have studyed much on the area in question. Knowing what I have learned, I would not dream of wishing to contribute to the destruction of a valuable ecosystem that has taken tens to hundreds of thousands of years to form, that do indeed sink massive amounts of CO2, AND are a valuable wildlife habitat. Yes The Norfolk broads may now be home to much wildlife, but it is man-made, and we must never forget we lost many species in its making! To say peat is a renewable resource is a joke...growing at 1mm a year...taking up to hundreds of thousands of years to form...do I really need to do the maths here?

I understand that peat was indeed an important rural industry. I would not wish to be rude by saying that times change and more modern forms of technology/farming will or should take over. But I will say, in times gone by (and indeed when the population was far smaller), peat bogs may indeed have been able to support local economies and their small scale businesses, eg flavouring whisky or warming the local houses without threatning their existance. But please, let us not pretend this is anywhere near the same thing as what peat extraction is used for nowadays...huge scale extraction and money making for multinational companies who are in the business of supplying the horticulture business without a care for the environment. We all would love to see everybody take up kitchen gardening in this country...can you imagine 60 million people buying a bag of peat every month. Not to mention that which is exported. Renewable? It wouldn't stand a chance. (And to hold on to the strange notion that any CO2 emitted whilst digging up peat is made up for when you grow something in your garden, well try looking at any number of scientific reports on the net, written by people independant of the peat industry profit, and you will soon find out how accurate this is or should I say isn't.)

That is my education...As for my experience, I have never used peat and certainly have no intention of ever using it. I have always used organic multi-purpose peat free compost, and these days am more frequently mixing it with my own home grown compost and small amounts of very well rotted manure. In 12 years I have successfuly grown all my own veg from seedlings, (even runner beans) enough these days to feed the family for seven months of the year. I have filled raised beds with it and potted citrus trees, dwarf peach and cherry trees with it, and in all those years i have only had one duff bag.

My plain and simple reason for not touching peat is I would not be so selfish as to want to contribute to the destruction of an important ecosystem for the sake of growing a few plants in my back garden, especially when there ARE satisfactory alternatives if one can be a little more flexiable with there ideas.

And lastly I must say the poorest arguement I have ever heard is that there are plenty of other more environmentally destructive things going on than a bit of peat extraction so why should we worry...we all know that the large scale problems are made up of all the small contributing factors. Maybe the peat users just don't care about wildlife preservation, habitat protection, global warming etc, but I do, and as a citizen of the world, I feel I need to do my bit, no matter how small.

Crazy about gardening Sarah.

[Cider Boys]

Welcome to the forum Sarah, but on reading your contribution it just serves to confirm all my suspicions regarding the modern education system.

Barney

[richward]

Welcome to the forum Sarah, but on reading your contribution it just serves to confirm all my suspicions regarding the modern education system.

Ciderboys, is it necessary to be so rude?

Welcome to the forum Sarah.

[sarahscottdavies]

Congratulations..that show of arrogance and ignorance says everything I need to know about yourself.

[Cider Boys]

Just goes to show that both of you also share the same suspicions that I do.

Barney

[richward]

Suspicions?

[Cider Boys]

Do I really need to explain?

Barney

[richward]

Duplicate posting

[richward]

Sorry Barney, I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Cider Boys]

Welcome to the forum Sarah, but on reading your contribution it just serves to confirm all my suspicions regarding the modern education system.

Ciderboys, is it necessary to be so rude?

Welcome to the forum Sarah.

Congratulations..that show of arrogance and ignorance says everything I need to know about yourself.

The fact is you both have taken by 'suspicions regarding the modern education system' as being rude, and/or, me being both arrogant and ignorant. To make those comments you both must believe that my suspicions were negative; I wonder why?

ps My wife has just read what I am typing and has confirmed that I am arrogant and that I should say sorry to Sarah, so to keep the peace and for her to make me another cup of tea I apologise if my remark gave any offence.

Best wishes

Barney

[Monika]

I am sorry to play devil's advocate, but I have tried - and I mean I really have tried - to use peat free compost but it just doesn't work for me. Perhaps I have used the wrong peat free compost, perhaps I have watered it wrongly, but I am sticking to peat-based compost.

There are lots of other things I do to help the environment, like not driving, not having a TV, being exceedingly frugal with heating and lighting, recycling anything recyclable, hardly ever buying clothes (only when they fall to pieces!), but I am sticking to peat-based compost, because I want to my vegetables to grow properly and, unfortunately, living in the climes we do, most of them have to be started off in containers rather than sowing directly into the ground.

And now you can shoot me.

[Geoff]

Last time we had this debate I asked a question I have never had an answer to.
If I use a growing medium containing a large amount of organic material it breaks down during the growing process and thereby sustains the plants I am growing. Let us assume I grow two equally successful batches of plants one in peat based and one in peat free medium, presumably by the end of the season each will have broken down to the same extent and released the same amount of CO2. There is no net gain to the environment by substituting peat if this is so. Why not use the peat and bury the rubbish that is being converted into dodgy composts and lock it's carbon underground?

[alan refail]

And lastly I must say the poorest arguement I have ever heard is that there are plenty of other more environmentally destructive things going on than a bit of peat extraction so why should we worry...we all know that the large scale problems are made up of all the small contributing factors. Maybe the peat users just don't care about wildlife preservation, habitat protection, global warming etc, but I do, and as a citizen of the world, I feel I need to do my bit, no matter how small.

I don't think this is a poor argument at all. Rather than an argument, it is perhaps more of a reminder to the anti-peat movement that there are other much more important issues you should examine. Do they drive cars? Do they buy imported goods? Do they fly in aeroplanes? The list could go on. The smugness of "I don't use peat" would carry more weight if accompanied by "I don't use fossil fuels" and so on.

There are lots of other things I do to help the environment, like not driving, not having a TV, being exceedingly frugal with heating and lighting, recycling anything recyclable, hardly ever buying clothes (only when they fall to pieces!), but I am sticking to peat-based compost, because I want to my vegetables to grow properly and, unfortunately, living in the climes we do, most of them have to be started off in containers rather than sowing directly into the ground.

And now you can shoot me.

Dear Monika, they'll have to shoot me and a lot of others as well - though it's beginning to sound as they would like to! I use peat for the reasons you do. I start most things in modules and I am unwilling to risk losing crops because of poor compost.

Last time we had this debate I asked a question I have never had an answer to.
If I use a growing medium containing a large amount of organic material it breaks down during the growing process and thereby sustains the plants I am growing. Let us assume I grow two equally successful batches of plants one in peat based and one in peat free medium, presumably by the end of the season each will have broken down to the same extent and released the same amount of CO2. There is no net gain to the environment by substituting peat if this is so. Why not use the peat and bury the rubbish that is being converted into dodgy composts and lock it's carbon underground?

If I were to be cynical, Geoff, I would say it's because they either don't know the answer or don't care. What you're up against is a single-issue campaign with the mantra "Peat is Bad", so don't bring up any inconvenient counter-thoughts!

Yes, I am being cynical

[richward]

Geoff wrote:
Last time we had this debate I asked a question I have never had an answer to.
If I use a growing medium containing a large amount of organic material it breaks down during the growing process and thereby sustains the plants I am growing. Let us assume I grow two equally successful batches of plants one in peat based and one in peat free medium, presumably by the end of the season each will have broken down to the same extent and released the same amount of CO2. There is no net gain to the environment by substituting peat if this is so. Why not use the peat and bury the rubbish that is being converted into dodgy composts and lock it's carbon underground?

I think the issue is more to do with the harvesting and extraction of peat for peat compost, than actually using the peat compost.

Rather than an argument, it is perhaps more of a reminder to the anti-peat movement that there are other much more important issues you should examine.

I agree there are plenty of important issues to be examined, but what's wrong with discussing peat?

[Tony Hague]

Last time we had this debate I asked a question I have never had an answer to.
If I use a growing medium containing a large amount of organic material it breaks down during the growing process and thereby sustains the plants I am growing. Let us assume I grow two equally successful batches of plants one in peat based and one in peat free medium, presumably by the end of the season each will have broken down to the same extent and released the same amount of CO2. There is no net gain to the environment by substituting peat if this is so. Why not use the peat and bury the rubbish that is being converted into dodgy composts and lock it's carbon underground?

The answer is simple. The peat free compost is made from composted waste material; the carbon content is recently captured from the atmosphere (by the growth of the trees the forestry waste came from, for example). If not used for potting compost, it is unlikely that that carbon content would be permanently trapped somewhere; more likely it would be returned to the atmosphere anyway through decompostion or burning. The peat, however, contains carbon captured by living things many, many years ago, and if it had been left undisturbed it would have remained trapped for many, many more years instead of being returned to the atmosphere.

It is much the same argument as that for burning logs rather than coal.

What I'm interested to know is - for those who swear by peat compost, what do you find you need to use it for ? Are we talking just as a seeding compost, or would you prefer it for growing on all container grown plants (greenhouse tomatoes and peppers for example) ? I have confessed to using a JI seed compost containing peat, but I find no need to use it for growing on. Mind you, all the vermiculite I use is not that eco either....