GM Potato Blight trials to go ahead.

[oldherbaceous]

Thanyou for the reply Alan.

So what i was really getting at then was, even a G.M potato will not be totally immune from blight, as blight is likely to move on from the Blue 13 version in years to come, maybe a stronger or maybe a weaker strain.
So does this make it the magic answer, some people seem to think it will be?

One more thing, if they are able to alter a potato to be totally resistant to all versions of blight, where does that leave all the wonderful old varieties, as i would have thought they would only have one or two varieties, due to the cost.

[John Walker]

I agree with Alan (Refail) that the Soil Association have not been thorough enough in answering his specific questions. Unfortunately it is not sufficient to just post a link to some online information and expect the reader to go and find out the 'answer' for themselves. So come on Soil Association, let's have some specific answers to specific questions. And please, no more links - unless they are intended to provide useful background information to flesh out specific answers.

The Soil Association's view of the idea of a 'people's GM' would, I'm sure, also be welcome.

I know that Dr David Shaw, director of research at the Sarvari Research Trust (the home of the 'Sarpo' potatoes) is following this discussion with much interest and is hoping to add some of his own comments as soon as he can.

[alan refail]

Hi John

Your post is much appreciated, especially your comments on SA's failure to come back with some transparent answers. I feel rather strange playing devil's advocate in favour of GM - not my normal line at all - but I'm sure interested people need some substantiated facts not just "beliefs".

Best wishes

Alan

[Johnboy]

For anybody wishing to try and understand the difference between Cisgenic and transgenic forms of genetic modification.

http://www.nature.com/embor/journal/v7/ ... 00769.html

JB.

[oldherbaceous]

Thank you for the link, Johnboy.

[alan refail]

And thanks from me too.

I only hope the uninformed read it, or at least get the gist of it.

[oldherbaceous]

I think i now get the gist of it.

So if they go down the Cisgenic root, they will end up with a blight resistant potato, rather than a blight free one?

But if they go down the transgenic root, we could have blight free potatoes, in what ever colour we choose, in theory.

[Cider Boys]

I must protest at the recent badgering of the Soil Association by two individuals expecting answers to their thought provoking questions. This is all most unfair.

One should appreciate that the SA do not answer awkward questions and I must insist that the two individuals desist from their unreasonable demands.

Don’t you know these are busy people and there are many reasons why the SA has not responded to you?

They may not have read your questions
They may not know the answers to your questions
They can’t be arsed
Or it may be that they are far too busy trying on their coverall chemicals suits to protest at these GM trials.

Barney

[Johnboy]

Hi OH,
The answer to your question is very appropriate because if the blanket ban on all forms of GM are not reasonably adjusted then it could take for ever.
This has been the responsibility of the association which is apparently very reluctant to answer the question posed by Alan.
In my mind Alan is never going to get a satisfactory answer.
I am very glad that you have taken the time to at least look at the thread I have posted which has been written by some very eminent scientists mainly from the Netherlands.
I suspect that the European Parliament Members were so heavily lobbied by certain individuals and the different options open were never explained fully and they voted on the misleading information that was fed to them.
I personally see very little difference in conventional hybridization and Cisgenic GM except that with CGM the genes responsible for what is trying to be achieved are directly targeted and it is therefore so very much faster and accurate.
JB.

[Colin Miles]

Johnboy's link is very interesting. Cisgenic - basically alteration by insertion of genes from the same species: Transgenic - introduction of genes from 'foreign' species of plants or animals.

But what I also found interesting was the following below, regarding mutagenesis. I believe that there are several well0-known varieties (Grapefruit) which were created by bombarding plants with nuclear radiation in the 50's.

Quote:
in Europe, mutation breeding is now exempt from the regulations on the release of GMOs into the environment (European Parliament, 2001). Usually, mutagenesis is achieved either by radiation or chemicals, both of which lead to random mutations and translocations. In general, mutagenesis causes larger changes at the DNA level compared with the changes that occur at the integration site of a cisgene or transgene (Shirley et al, 1992; Cecchini et al, 1998).

However, in the case of mutation breeding, current regulations do not require molecular characterization of all mutations in a plant before market introduction, and the nature and number of the mutations introduced are usually unknown. In the past 70 years, mutation breeding has led to more than 2,250 plant varieties, derived either as direct mutants or from their progenies (Ahloowalia et al, 2004). Although these mutation-derived plant varieties have been produced and used for food, feed or as ornamentals in more than 30 countries for several decades (Ahloowalia et al, 2004), we are not aware of any indications that the underlying mutations have caused damage to the environment, or had adverse effects on human or animal health (van Harten, 1998).

[alan refail]

Alan Romans has an interesting comment on Sarpo Mira: " Peasant survival food! "

http://www.alanromans.com/p-1892-sarpo-mira.aspx

[Geoff]

"Call You and Yours" is going to discuss GM tomorrow. No doubt it will be like this debate, lobbing second hand grenades from entrenched positions.

[alan refail]

Looks like the Soil Association has gone to earth on this one

[PLUMPUDDING]

I think many more people would be in favour of Cisgenetic modification rather than transgenesis if they understood the difference, and it is an important difference as they aren't introducing say, fish genes into carrots, which is un-natural, but apple genes into apples which is. It is only the method of crossing the apple genes that is different from naturally cross pollinating them.

If they can get something really useful from this type of genetic modification of potatoes, which seems a much less likely to affect other nearby crops than the GM maize trials I'm not against it. But I still prefer to grow things naturally without sprays or tampering, and up to now, we've still never had blight in the garden. I might have a different opinion if it was a problem as I love trying lots of different varieties of potatoes.

I thought Alan Romans tips on harvesting Sarpo Axona or Mira a bit earlier to get a less floury potato was worth a try. I think I'll try lifting a few at intervals and see which taste best. I still like them anyway mashed with plenty of butter and a splash of milk, even when they are huge, and as he says they keep for ages.

[alan refail]

On one of my brief visits to "the other place" I noticed that the same discussion was going on there too. I was interested to see that Simon Foster from the Sainsbury Laboratory has spent a great deal of time and effort trying to explain what is involved and dispel some of the wilder myths contributors were floating. Worth a read:

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/grapev ... 48730.html