wobbly brassicas

[retropants]

hmmm, my broccoli and sprout plantlets are not looking very happy. I pricked out the little seedlings into modules ages ago, and they grew on quite happily. Over tha last week or so, the older leaves (about 2-3 per plant) are wilting and hanging down and bginning to turn what can only be described as beige. Theye were in the greenhouse (it has been really cold) which has a small heater in there and several propagators to keep the chill off. They were just on the bench. At the weekend, I put them outside as it is getting warmer. They seem worse than ever. What is going on?

[poppingjay]

I've had a similar experience, my cabbages and cauli plantlets are fine but my sprouting broccoli, calvo nero and sprouts which were doing well suddenly started to look very poorly. I had a poke about and they seem to had just rotted off at the root, which makes me think over watering even though I don't feel I've been over liberal and they were in the poly tunnel (in modules). Try gently pulling upwards on a leaf, mine just came away at the base?

[Monika]

I think brassicas and some other plants just did not like the cold weather. Ours looked really poorly and have visibly perked up the last two days. I would keep them on the dry side for a bit, retropants, and hope for the best.

[Beryl]

I would suggest to pot on into at least 3" pots if they are still in cell trays. There is not enough depth in these trays for brassicas for too long.
Set the seedlings deep up to their lower seed leaves and they should start to make new roots from the stem and then grow away.

Beryl.

[Geoff]

Sounds like they have run out of food. As Beryl says pot them on, possibly give them a high Nitrogen liquid feed like MiracleGro at the same time. However, they might never recover to be worthwhile plants, once checked often poor.

[retropants]

they are getting sicker and sicker, all hanging down and shrivelled. I am quite upsert, there are about 10 different varieteis, and it's too late to re sow most of them.

Thanks for all your advice, I am going to leave them for now. They still have roots, as they dont pull out of the pots so who knows.....

[John]

Hello RP
Sorry to hear of your sad brassicas. Had you thought that cabbage root fly might be the problem? They are active around this time of year. Have a look at the roots of your plants to see if there are any little white grubs around. They feed on the roots and stunt growth. Unfortunately the plants never recover well from their attentions.

From your last posting you say that it's too late to sow again. I don't know what varieties you're sowing but apart from caulis which can be fussy about sowing/growing times I would have thought that there is still plenty of time to sow again.

John

[Tony Hague]

I thought I'd just about come across all pest problems, but this year I have ants chewing the outside off my cabbage stems. What next ?

[retropants]

I might be Ok with the purple sprouting and autumn calabrese, but the summer calabrese and sprouts...I'm not so sure, they need to be in and growing . hmph.

[tiamaria1]

Hi Retropants,
I'm glad you have posted this problem cos a similar thing has happened to me. My brassicas were all doing fine in module trays, I planted them out about 2 weeks ago, that's Kale, cauli and tatsoi and all of them have started to turn beige, and don't look good at all. I have collars round them made from old lino flooring so I don't think its root fly. I have directly sown some radish in the bed too which are just coming up so I'll let you know how they go. Other than that I was going to try to re sow and plant out at the other end of the brassica bed to see if that makes a difference.

[Johnboy]

Hi Retropants,
I am going to attempt to explain what I think is the problem with your Brassicas.
I suspect that they have insufficient nutrition because grown in modules then potted on and when potting on the compost should be reinforced with N and P fertilizers. You probably fed too much N and not enough P which throws the tops growth out of balance with the root growth.
With Brassicas root growth is more important than top growth when they are at the seedling and plant-let stages. Hence when you plant them out they have insufficient root growth to feed the given top growth and they then wilt. They then use the first and second pair of leaves as sacrificial feed which incidentally they would do normally but at a later stage.
With Brassicas I always slip in a small amount of Super Phosphate into the compost when potting on for the first time.
I also suspect that you probably kept your plants under shelter for too long a period. My advice is to sow a little later than you did this year and try to make it so that from seedling to plantlet to planting out is done without any check in the growth pattern. In modules allow the roots to just fill the module and then at the plantlet stage pot them on or plant out but not before you get a root show from the bottom of the pot.
Brassicas need planting out when the second pair of true leaves are reaching full growth.
Sincerely,
JB.

[retropants]

Thanks JB, that all sounds perfectly reasonable, but they weren't in the modules (large size, not tiddlers) long enough to go 'hungry' in my opinion. They did do as you say, wilt, then go pale and lifeless from the lower set of leaves. They are now perking up a bit, and I have also resown as well. As for delaying the sowing, It was already a whole month later than I normally would, as I was on my honeymoon, and everything had to wait til I got back!

So, basically, it sounds entirely feasible, but I'm not sure. It could have been overwatering plus it was bl**dy freezing in the greenhouse. I will just put it down to bad luck, but will take all this advice on board for next years adventure!

thanks everyone

[iknownothing]

tony re ants
Hi i've had the same problem with ants chewing off the stems of my cauliflowers and cabbage they seem to expose the bottom of the stem by loosening the soil then that part of the stem gradually gets thinner and thinner till the plant falls over and dies! I've put ant bait traps down now but not sure if they ok to use in my raised bed.
alison

[Johnboy]

Hi Retropants,
bl**dy freezing in the greenhouse as you so aptly put it will not really affect Brassicas. I have had them in the tunnels frozen absolutely solid without them coming to harm. Too long under cover will stretch the plant as well which doesn't help. The superior root system is the all important factor. I somehow would question the compost that they were sown in. There are many many things that can go wrong and I can only try to help from afar.
JB.

[Primrose]

The same thing happened with one batch on my curly kale, i.e. leaves going yellow and I think Johnboy is right about root depth because the first batch I sowed which went yellow were in a narrow Garden Centre polystyrene strip, which contains very little compost. I sowed a few more in a four inch deep container to avoid having to pot on and they are fine and healthy. They were all subjected to the same low night temperature in my little mini plastic greenhouse.