Use of manure.

[rachelrt]

I've been installing raised beds in my allotment, then filling them with a layer of rotted horse manure then a layer of mushroom compost. My hope is that the worms will do their work over the winter and I'll have lovely beds ready for planting next year. My only worry is that if I plant root veg in these beds will the roots fork? I read that manure in the soil can cause this. Or will the manure have incorporated sufficiently by the spring so I don't have to worry about this? Any advice gratefully recieved!
Rachel

[glallotments]

As a newbie Rachel, I hope you are aware of the need to be cautious when obtaining manure due to possible contamination.

Root vegetables such as carrots and parsnips shouldn't be grown in beds that have been manured as they tend to fork but potatoes would be OK (as long as it is free of aminopyralid residue that is).

[oldherbaceous]

Well i'm going to disagree with glallotments a little here, as long as the manure is very well rotted it won't be a problem. It is fresh or half rotted manure that seems to cause the forking.

May i just ask if you dug the bottom of the beds over before you put the manure and compost in, Rachelrt? The only reason i ask is that, the manure and compost will get mixed in with the soil a lot quicker if you did.

[rachelrt]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. My source of manure is a friend who keeps horses, as opposed to farmyard manure, so hopefully there won't be any contamination problems, (what is aminopyralid?). To answer the digging question, yes, my beds are being sited over previously dug soil, so I'm hoping it will all incoporate nicely over the winter.
Thanks again for your replies
Best wishes
Rachel

[Johnboy]

Hi Rachel,
If the friend who has the horses produces his/her own hay (all of it) and doesn't buy-in Hay or Haylage then your horse manure should be clear of Aminopyralid. You must ask him if he does or doesn't buy-in and if he does you must ask for his source. The chances of your friend using it is extremely slim but all the same you must ask him/her as well.
If you are burying manure now and do not intend to plant up with anything until the spring you may well be ok.
At first glance this may seem to you a bit alarmist but there have been so many failures through Aminopyralid over the last two years you simply must be certain of what you are using.
As OH says the forking of Carrots and Parsnips is normally because manure is too fresh when dug in and has a tendency to burn the tip of the root which will then send out another root causing the fork.
If the manure is well rotted when dug in then again I shouldn't worry too much. A stone can also cause forking roots.
JB.

[glallotments]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. My source of manure is a friend who keeps horses, as opposed to farmyard manure, so hopefully there won't be any contamination problems, (what is aminopyralid?). To answer the digging question, yes, my beds are being sited over previously dug soil, so I'm hoping it will all incoporate nicely over the winter.
Thanks again for your replies
Best wishes
Rachel

This just goes to show that there are still so many people who haven't come across the problem and supports my complaint about lack of publicity and the fact that gardening writers/celebrities/radio experts are still advocating use of manure without giving a warning. Probably becomes monotonous but needs to be done.

Rachel - Check out the links from this page of my website
http://glallotments.co.uk/ACManure.aspx
and these threads
http://www.kitchengarden.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5688&hilit=aminopyralid
[url]
http://www.kitchengarden.co.uk/forum/vi ... inopyralid[/url]

[rachelrt]

Thanks for the information, glallotments, it made an interesting read. I have to admit you have me a little worried, and I will check with my friend over where her hay comes from. Nothing is ever simple! However, I am spreading the manure in a fairly thin layer on the soil, and don't plan to plant anything much until the spring. I say anything much, because I have ordered some strawberry plants, and I was planning to put them straight into the beds. I'm now wondering if I would be better to pot them up until the spring, at least until I'm sure about my manure source. You are right, whenever anything is demonstrated on TV we are always eccouraged to "incorporate lots of well rotted organic matter!", with no mention of the problems this could cause if not carefully sourced. I realise this could also mean home made compost, but your point is valid. Is it worth e-mailing a programme such as Gardeners Question Time in order to raise the profile again? At least make people aware of the problem?
Best wishes
Rachel

[glallotments]

Hi Rachel,
Hopefully you will be OK but do wait until you are sure. In the (fingers crossed) unlikely event that you have contaminated manure, certain crops are more susceptible than others.

You could try the bean test but bear in mind this doesn't prove the manure is safe but could prove that it isn't. See Real Foods website for instructions
http://www.growyourown.info/page164.html

A group of us have in fact spent the last year or so writing, emailing, telephoning anyone who could help with publicity - radio, TV, newspapers, magazines, MPs, MEPs, government departments, the chemical company, website publishers etc etc and for my sins I managed to get a slot on Gardeners World and our local politics show last year as well as several interviews on our local radio.

Another fellow victim was on Gardeners Question Time. I have also emailed as many celebrity gardeners as I could find contacts for and only a couple have replied but in spite of all our activity as you are aware there are still people who haven't heard of the problem. Others just seem loathe to admit that there is a problem or ever was one.

[Ian White]

Is it the same with horse manure,as i can get hold of some as my wife has a horse and was when i get sorted going to dig it in to my plot,
Sorry if it's a silly question.

All the best,Ian

[Johnboy]

Hi Ian,
There is no such thing as a 'silly question.' If you are unsure or cannot understand something ask away. This is what the forum is for and if you ask and still do not understand please say so and then sometimes explained using other words or a different approach until the penny drops.
When people are new to gardening they generally buy some books to read up on it and gardening writers are famous for even writing the most simple thing using gardening jargon or using unfamiliar terms to the new gardener reader.
Whatever you need to know there is generally somebody who will be able to manage to advise you on this forum.
If you are too shy to ask in open forum use the PM system and ask one of the regular contributors privately.
Sincerely,
JB.

[glallotments]

Is it the same with horse manure,as i can get hold of some as my wife has a horse and was when i get sorted going to dig it in to my plot,
Sorry if it's a silly question.

All the best,Ian

In the future horse manure should in theory be safer as when the herbicide is reintroduced it will not be available (in theory) to stables or those keeping horses.

This year though probably more reports of problems with horse manure have been reported than with farmyard manure. The problem is that the contamination can enter the chain through bought in haylage as well as from horses directly grazing treated land.

[Johnboy]

Hi Glallotments,
That is the trouble with theories!
There are hundreds of Horse owners but the greater majority rely solely on bought-in hay and haylage. Bought from a dealer it could come from absolutely anywhere with no chance of tracing the source.
If Aminopyralid is used it is supposed to be used on the farm it is produced on but that is totally impracticable.
This is why the way the Aminopyralid problem has been resolved is so terribly wrong. The word resolved is used very reservedly!
I suspect this problem will be with us for a lot longer than even we anticipate.
JB.

[glallotments]

Mmm I am sceptical too - as in theory this shouldn't have been a problem in the first place. We will just have to keep our ears to the ground and follow-up if the problem recurs.

[Ian White]

Is it the same with horse manure,as i can get hold of some as my wife has a horse and was when i get sorted going to dig it in to my plot,
Sorry if it's a silly question.

All the best,Ian

In the future horse manure should in theory be safer as when the herbicide is reintroduced it will not be available (in theory) to stables or those keeping horses.

This year though probably more reports of problems with horse manure have been reported than with farmyard manure. The problem is that the contamination can enter the chain through bought in haylage as well as from horses directly grazing treated land.

Thanks for that glallotments i know that the ground the horse is grazing on has not been treated with any sort of herbicide,but as has been said our hay is bought in from the local farm.So i am not too sure if that land is treated with herbicides

Thanks for the help so far,Ian

[Mike Vogel]

Hi Rachel,
Having the luxury of being retiresd, I've been clearing the street near my house of leaves, which I have taken to the allotment and surrounded with wire mesh. I did the same last year and I have super leafmould from it now, which I have been heaping on turned soil on beds previously used for tomatoes. The soil beneath has been well worked, so I hope to have big carrots next year.

Leafmould is the ideal madium for your raised beds where you want to grow root crops. It is loose, so roots form easily. it is also slightly acid, giving the soil a pH which carrots in particular enjoy.

On some of the beds I have laid down a sheet of cardboard or newspaper first and put the leafmould [or other compost] on top of that. The cardboard will exclude light and stop weeks forming. In spring i shall slit the cardboard through the mulch of leafmould and sow the carrots etc into the slit