Contaminated Manure

[glallotments]

Hi Dave,
The weeds were unaffected on our plot. It is possible that the concentration of herbicide is only sufficient to affect sensitive crops. ON our site of the 20 people who bought manure from the same source only 10 were affected and then in varying degrees.

Our first sign of a problem was June but someone else had a problem in his polytunnel in May. Then different areas of our plot and other plots fell foul at different times depending I suppose on the way the plant material was decomposing.

It is also possible that he had stacked different batches of manure in one pile and some parts are affected and not others.

I would contact the framer first and then DOW -so you have more information but you don't have to prove your contamination is down to aminopyralid before contacting them as there is no sure fire way to prove or disprove the chemical is present other than the farmer being able to tell you that it was used. Even if they say it hasn't the stuff could still be involved via other means. So talk to the farmer and then contact DOW and the CRD whatever the outcome. I know of at least one case where The guy from DOW is going to visit someone who thinks they are affected. DOW have appointed someone just to deal with this problem.

Where is you plot based Dave? So I can add your location

[davew]

well we have spoken to the farmer and he swears that he has never used aminopyralid ,he has heard of the problem with it but says he has never used it on his land he also doesn't buy any silage in from anywhere else he makes it all.
when we got the manure delivered mine looked different to everyone elses and he said that was because mine came from the part were the beasts walk in and out of the bire so it was very wet with urine and says the problem is probably down to using the manure to early.
the manure does look very fresh and wet do you think that it could have caused this damage, the nettles around the heap have curled edges would fresh manure with a lot of urine in it cause this ?
i don't see why this guy would lie as we have had a few drops of manure from him and it's been ok.
is there any other reliable way to test it because if it is to strong and damaging the plants and i grow more beans in it to test it i will get the same result.

sorry forgot to add my plot is in the northeast (durham)

[glallotments]

It is strange as using manure that is too fresh doesn't cause the same symptoms.

Is it possible for you to contact the RHS to see what they think? Or are you a member of NSALG as they could probably give some advice.

Does the farmer buy in bedding? Does he store his manure close to anyone else's land where drifting could affect it.

I would contact DOW anyway and see if they would arrange for some testing but the trouble with testing is that it doesn't prove the stuff ISN'T there - can only prove it is - that is if a great enough amount is in the stuff to show up.

You haven't used any lawn clippings have you that has recently been sprayed as a lawn preparation containing clopyralid has a simliar effect.

[davew]

i've mailed the pics to the RHS to see what they think, the farmer says he does not buy in any bedding or feed, the manure wasn't stored it came straight from the bire floor to my allotment and it's ben covered with a plastic sheet since then and nothing has been added to it.
i'll also email DOW any idea what it costs for them to test it ?

[glallotments]

I think it's expensive but you shouldn't offer to pay.

[Johnboy]

Hi Glallotments,
I have a thought that this is not to do with contaminated manure as none of it really adds up. If manure is really heavily impregnated with urine, especially from a Bull Pen it can be quite lethal. Said to kill at ten paces! If this manure has been used fresh it can be devastating.
I note that Dave has covered the manure in the pile but it really needs the weather to temper it down a bit so should be left open to the weather. I think you will find that an excess of Urea can cause distortions similar to the picture of Dave's Tomato plant.
JB.

[glallotments]

Thanks for that JohnBoy.
I hadn't noticed the covering up and as you say even if it was due to herbicide then the heap needs to be exposed to the air.
I'm sure you will be correct as always in your diagnosis - as always.

[davew]

thanks johnboy i hope you are correct, i've taken the cover of the manure tonight it's very wet you can hear it squelching when you stick a spade in it.
i must admit i can't understand why the farmer would lie if he was using this chemical he is a local lad and even drinks with a few people form the allotments and also everybody elses manure that came from him is fine it's only mine that has a problem.

[Johnboy]

Hi Dave,
A few questions. Are all your broad Beans like the one pictured? And are all of your Tomatoes showing the same symptoms?
I have seen Broad Beans suffer with symptoms like your picture caused by an Aphid attack. The damage has been done early when only a bud and the buggers move on leaving you and I scratching our heads!
We have had some fairly warm days of late and the Tomato plant could well be suffering from sun scorch which will make the leaves wither and maybe die off. I feel that if it was contaminated manure the whole plant would be showing symptoms which it appears not. Polytunnels can get very very hot very very quickly and the heat gets trapped in the canopy and descends in a layer onto the top of the crop. Is the tunnel well ventilated because this would prevent scorching? It should have a through stream of air not just open at one end.
With FYM urine is a essential ingredient for good decomposing but too much urine means that until the manure has weathered it will be out of kilter. Far too much Nitrogen. Too much nitrogen can in itself cause abnormal growth. Looking again at your picture of the bean it is only the very top growth and the rest of the plant seems fine. Very mysterious!
JB.

[glallotments]

DOW told us that my volunteer potatoes may be showing the signs of contamination becuse the tuber had absorbed some of the residue and as they are growing cause the leaves to deform.

Any idea John boy of whether this phenomenon could affect seed potatoes as I guess they are produced in the same way as we actually grow our potatoes. The reason I ask is that a plot on our site is showing the symptoms of contamination and he has put absolutely nothing on his plot - no aphids apparent either.

Only one of his potato varieties are affected. Only water added and the plot has been fallow for a couple of years. I'm sending photos etc to the RHS and DOW to see what they think but if this is the case then it is a worrying development.

[Johnboy]

Hi Glallotments,
I can understand volunteer Potatoes falling foul of the contamination because they were in contact with the contamination albeit several months ago.
As the plot has been fallow are we sure that no herbicide has been used to bring it on stream again? Having said that I believe that you allotments are Organic or have I dreamt that one up? Is it the entire row of the one variety of Potato? The seed Potatoes could have been contaminated before they were purchased but that somehow seems very unlikely.
I think that the aphids would affect the Broad Beans although Potatoes do get Aphids they seem to come later in the season. What they feed on until they only the good Lord will be able to say!
I agree as you say it is quite a worrying development.
Quite frankly I am at a loss for any tangible answer.
Sincerely,
JB.

[glallotments]

Johnboy,
I had a very prompt response from the RHS saying that the photos show symptoms consistent with hormonal weedkiller damage and that they feel it is unlikely that the seed potatoes would have been grown in contaminated soil as the crop would have been discarded but as our potatoes eventually grew through the problem if the grower wasn't constantly visiting his crop maybe he could have missed it.

What they did say however was that other causes include being stored or chitted in the same environment as hormone weedkillers, including lawn weedkillers, which can have a vapour action.

The plot holder in question did use Weedol to clear the weeds when he first acquired his plot but that was last year and Weedol isn't supposed to be persistent or active on hitting soil is it?

I'll see what DOW have to say.

[glallotments]

Forgot to answer one bit of the question. The Picasso pots are not all showing signs yet but behaving a bit like ours which seems to be gradually more are falling foul. This is another mystery as you would expect all to suffer at once if the tubers are contaminated but maybe the herbicide is released as the seed potatoes decomposes?

I just don't know!

[HelenH]

Hi everyone

I've been following this discussion with interest after my veg plot was affected last year by some bagged farmyard manure I purchased from a well-known local garden centre. Well what an idiot I've been!! Stupidly I did not learn the lesson from this and at the beginning of this year dug (into new areas of my plot) a load of composted farmyard manure from a local farmer who maintained the manure was not affected. It's thrown my veg plot into chaos and I will need to dig up and dispose of all my potatoes and peas which have been most dreadfully affected.

I do not want to waste all the plants I have grown which are now ready to be planted out, and to this end I plan to plant up any non-sensitive crops (brassicas and sweetcorn). Dow's website maintains that it's ok to consume veg grown in affected ground but I'm a little unsure as to whether I'm doing the right thing.

Does anyone know different or have any views/comments?

Thanks
HelenH

[davew]

Hi Dave,
A few questions. Are all your broad Beans like the one pictured? And are all of your Tomatoes showing the same symptoms?
I have seen Broad Beans suffer with symptoms like your picture caused by an Aphid attack. The damage has been done early when only a bud and the buggers move on leaving you and I scratching our heads!
We have had some fairly warm days of late and the Tomato plant could well be suffering from sun scorch which will make the leaves wither and maybe die off. I feel that if it was contaminated manure the whole plant would be showing symptoms which it appears not. Polytunnels can get very very hot very very quickly and the heat gets trapped in the canopy and descends in a layer onto the top of the crop. Is the tunnel well ventilated because this would prevent scorching? It should have a through stream of air not just open at one end.
With FYM urine is a essential ingredient for good decomposing but too much urine means that until the manure has weathered it will be out of kilter. Far too much Nitrogen. Too much nitrogen can in itself cause abnormal growth. Looking again at your picture of the bean it is only the very top growth and the rest of the plant seems fine. Very mysterious!
JB.

yes all the beans are the same and it's only the tops ,maybe you are right about exess nitrogen they started looking a bit odd and someone suggested they needed a feed so i put some growmore on them ,the leaves were allready starting to curl at this time.
there was only 2 tomato plants affected ,scorching was susspected at first as i was only opening one of the polytunnel doors and my tunnel get full sun all day long but they were the only 2 that had the second batch of manure on them, they also had some manure as a mulch , there were a couple of shoots that grew up from the bottom were also curled up, i've since cut the damaged section off the top of the tomato's and the rest of the plants are doing fine.