Jan KG - Very Bad Advice!

[Colin Miles]

Page 51 - "If the plot is very overgrown ask if the council/trust ... will rotovate it. This is sometimes offered to new plotholders taking on a very rough plot."

The very last thing that should happen. Enthusiastic new-comer takes on newly rotovated plot in Spring - 6 weeks later it is weedier than ever. Very disheartening!!

[oldherbaceous]

I agree, not the best thing to do to a weed ridden plot.

[KG Emma]

NOT bad advice.
A new person taking on a VERY rough allotment for the first time needs all the help they can get. We did say in the article it is best to remove the worst of the woody growth and then spray before cultivating but even then you won't get rid of all the weed growth. It is going to take hard graft whatever the situation but given the choice of taking on a bramble covered, waist high plot with goodness knows what buried beneath, tackling it on your own (in my case a single woman) OR having the council or whoever clear the site -be it roughly just to get you started. I know which I would choose and I speak from a voice of experience. Horses for courses. Depends who is doing the gardening and how much time they have!

[Colin Miles]

This has obviously hit a nerve. Unfortunately, if you did say

'it is best to remove the worst of the woody growth and then spray before cultivating but even then you won't get rid of all the weed growth.'

then it didn't survive the editing process - or at least I can't find it in my copy on pages 50 - 52.

I too speak from the voice of experience having been in charge of an allotment site and desperately trying to get new people in AND to keep them.

[Colin Miles]

Sorry - pages 49 - 51.

[Tony Hague]

I'm not convinced that it is such bad advice. I took on a new lottie last spring, and quite enjoyed watching Joe Swift on Gardener's world go through a similar process. My plot was rotivated twice, I'm told. I still broke my spade digging it ! The idea that you would dig out by hand all the weed is perhaps ideal but unrealistic - at least if you have a day job as well.

[Colin Miles]

Well Tony, I don't know what sort of weeds your plot had, but speaking from experience, over several years, the very kind offer of the council to clear plots which were weedy to start with simply created a bigger problem. Couch grass, bindweed, etc., merely multiplied - very quickly. On heavy clay soil that was a complete disaster and proved too much for most newcomers. And not good for the rest of us either since it meant more weeds to spread to us and more unsightly plots to put off any newcomers. It's a bit like the BS's offering 125% mortgages. Very nice on the face of it, but come the credit crunch...

Maybe you are lucky and it was relatively clear to start with. With us the few plot-holders who stayed the course were those who took the advice of clearing a bit at a time either by digging it out, smothering it with carpets, etc., or by spraying. Taking on an allotment does involve time and effort, something which unfortunately is not so common nowadays. Newcomers need all the help, 'good' advice and encouragement that we can give them. I repeat what I said previously, rotovating weedy, overgrown plots is never good advice.

[Stephen]

I confess, my copy of KG January is still in the wrapper.
The only comment i would add is that I had no offers of assistance regarding clearing the plot before I took it over.

[Tony Hague]

Well Tony, I don't know what sort of weeds your plot had, but speaking from experience, over several years, the very kind offer of the council to clear plots which were weedy to start with simply created a bigger problem. Couch grass, bindweed, etc., merely multiplied - very quickly. On heavy clay soil that was a complete disaster and proved too much for most newcomers.

I so far have found, in decreasing order of prevalence, Comfrey, docks, Mare's tail, and Couch. No significant bindweed troubles (yet).

The soil is heavy clay. In March, lifting a spadeful of earth was only just possible and accompanied by a "slurp". No chance of picking out weed roots from that slop. By June, a mattock was the only tool that would break the surface.

The Mare's tail and Comfrey are not suceptible to digging out. At least the rotivating knocked them back a bit, and the bits that resurfaced were possible to dig out. The bits which haven't reapperared I hope at least will have suffered from a year without seeing daylight.

I have used black polythene on beds that I didn't get into use in the first year, and weed barriers / shreddings on the paths. I fully expect a long battle.

Other plot holders have sprayed off with glyphosate; it appears to have killed the grasses nicely but the comfrey and mare's tail has thrived in the vacuum created - I'd say that to my eye it has made problems worse. Probably repeated applications might have done the trick though.

[Primrose]

Having had two allotments in the past, both of which had to be dug over from scratch when we were both in full time jobs and had very little time to space, I know we would have welcomed even some very rough rotivation to help us get under way.
Digging over heavily brambled and compacted soil is very hard and dispiriting work and if you're not physically strong (and some women just don't have the same physical strength as a man) you could have a whole growing season pass before you'd managed to clear enough ground to grow anything, and certainly not enough crops to have earned your annual allotment rental fee.

[KG Emma]

I got ahead of myself as usual I was actually thinking comments were being made on what I had only just written for the February issue- Taking on a new plot. I wrote this a few weeks ago but it has yet to go to press! We get very confused here on Kitchen Garden working so far in advance. In my mind I'm just about ready to sow for spring but have to keep reminding myself it is ONLY DECEMBER!
In this new piece, which no one has seen yet(pages 44-45 of the February issue, I was talking about taking on a very bad plot which is sometimes cleared by the council or whoever and this can be a big help for some people. I know this can cause a rash of weeds but at least it levels the site and possibly removes a lot of debris left by the previous plotholder.
I also mentioned that it is best to get off the worst of the woody stuff and rubbish etc and then spray.
Apologies I suppose it did hit a bit of a nerve as I have nearly killed myself going at a rough plot like a mad woman posessed -not a pretty sight!

[oldherbaceous]

Dear Lady Lettuce, i found it quite touching seeing your angrier side, it just showed how passionte you are about what you write.

And not even i'm right all of the time, yes i know you are finding that hard to believe.

[Colin Miles]

Unfortunately many newcomers to allotments have watched the gardening tele programs and, unlike people like Tony and Primrose, have unrealistic expectations as to what gardening actually entails. I am not saying that they expect instant results, but being faced with a first crop which is weeds rather than a crop, it certainly brings them down to earth with a bump. Perhaps that is just as well as it weeds out those who won't stay the course. But personally, after 6 years of struggling with the consequences of rotovation of a weedy plot on heavy clay and as someone who has stayed the course, I know what I would prefer and what advice I would have welcomed at the start. Fortunately I now have my own garden so I rotovate when it's weed-free.