Dow chemicals and Forefront

[Johnboy]

Hi Alan,
A herbicide is not a pesticide and quite frankly Alan you really should know that!
JB.

[alan refail]

Johnboy

For goodness sake, what are you trying to prove?

Please read this from Pesticides Safety Directorate

Quote:-

'Pesticide' is a broad term, covering a range of products that are used to control pests. The slug pellets, ant powder, weed killers, and rat and mouse baits that you may use in your everyday life are all pesticides. Other pesticides you may have heard of include:

insect killers (insecticides)
mould and fungi killers (fungicides)
weedkillers (herbicides)
slug pellets (molluscicides)
plant growth regulators
bird and animal repellents, and
rat and mouse killers (rodenticides)

Perhaps an apology to Richard for your unfounded attack on him would be in order.

[richard p]

the title "Pesticides Safety directorate" says it all really without bothering to go any further.

[Johnboy]

Alan and Richard,
The word Pesticide precedes the PSD by many many years and because they have now lumped all things together, as governments are apt to do, a herbicide is exactly what it says in the word. The government hijacked the word Pesticide exactly the same way as the word Organic was hijacked by those who now grow organically who having sullied that word Organic want to change that word to something else now.
What I am trying to prove is that those against chemicals use the word deliberately because the term pesticide is reckoned by the general public to be something awful.
It is by this method that the anti GM faction gathered support from the general public to comdemn GM.
You are both now trying hard to split hairs to do exactly the same. To people like you Aminopyralid is manna from heaven and you will try and make as much political capital as you possibly can.
Beacause of the sad incident of Aminopyralid which, had it been used strictly to the licence, would not have happened.
Aminopyralid is a Herbicide and plays no part in killing of anything but weeds that can ruin a crop of the grass family.
As it happens I, once again, stress that I am very much against this particular Herbicde because it clearly cannot be controlled properly and the licence should be withdrawn for good.
JB.

[richard p]

JB you are assuming a motive in my use of the word pesticide which i can catagorically state isnt there.
im a younger generation to you and in the past have had dealings with both the pesticide directorate and the health and safty bods at the highest level so am used to using their terminology.
can we just stop all this nit picking and accept that everyone who has posted on this thread is agreed that this particular chemical herbicide should never have been given the aproval . anyone (especially with the benifit of hindsight) should havge been able to see that in the real world something would go wrong.
if you want to argue some more you'll have to be quick im off to spain tomorrow so may not be able to respond for a week

[oldherbaceous]

I wonder if they are having this problem with Aminopyralid in Spain.

Maybe if you get bored on holiday Richard, you could check it out.

[Johnboy]

Hi Richard,
I certainly agree with your comments. You are off to Spain tomorrow and in about 20 mins I am off the the hospital until Friday.
Do enjoy your holiday.
Sincerely,
JB.

[richard p]

hi jb probably missed you , but hope whatever it is goes well. nopefully catch you next week

[glallotments]

Just spotted this offshoot to the contaminated manure problem and just thought that if anyone else comes across it and doesn't know what all the fuss is about they should read the original thread too.
http://www.kitchengarden.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5688

[pump_king]

Nicely put Alan. a POISON is a POISON, call it what ever you like. I DO NOT want my food sprayed with anything, naturally occurring poisons in the ground is one thing, being put there by mankind ‘cos it will make him more money is obscene. Oh yes before fore you ask JB I only buy organic meat and bread, I grow my own veg and by organic if/when I run out.

[Johnboy]

Pump-king.
Certainly a poison is a poison and if you think that organic producers do not use poisons then you are very ill informed.
If you were to read through the original glallotments thread you will find that I am very strongly against the use of Aminopyralid and any treatment of that type. That apart, Aminopyralid as it happens is not a poison.
I suggest that before you have a crack at me, which I don't mind in the least, you simply get your facts correct.
JB.

[glallotments]

Unfortunately some of the aminopyralid contamination is suspected to have a link through organic products.

See the list of reports of problems to our web site http://glallotments.co.uk/Manure9.aspx Also as John says organic labelling may not mean what we all thought that it did. see http://glallotments.co.uk/organic.aspx

[Mike Vogel]

If I can add my 2p-worth to the linguistic debate [as a classicist and linguist], a pesti -cide is by definition a substance which kills DISEASES [or disease-bearing organisms]. A herbi-cide is a substance which kills GRASS [herba] or, by extension, grass-like growths such as plants or weeds. I can see no connection between killing disease and killing healthy living things and the two should not be lumped together. It is absurd to call grass or weeds "pests" just because they are in the wrong place.

mike

[Johnboy]

Hi Mike,
The definition of a weed is anything that is growing in the wrong place.
As it happens Forefront is not to kill anything from the grass family but to selectively remove weeds from a crop of the grass family.
With regards to the definition of the word Pesticide and quote for your reference the Oxford Shorter Dictionary. (Why shorter I will never understand 'cos its two large volumes)

Pesticide
A substance for destroying pests. Especially
pest-insects and occasionally a herbicide.

This aside I do not believe in this particular chemical because it is obviously not readily controllable and to have to rely on word of mouth is simply not good enough where chemicals are concerned.
There are so many inter-farm transactions and it takes but one vendor not to mention that the crop has been treated with Aminopyralid can as has been proven to be catastrophic.
As you will appreciate Mike that I am not totally against the use of chemicals because there are many chemicals which make the difference betwixt feeding the nation and the nation going short of food.
In this particular case I feel that the PSD have been totally useless and I feel that an investigation into their worth must come about.
Sincerely,
JB.