Hi
I've been busy in the last year and have only been able to dip into the Forum. Delighted to see that JB is still raising important issues and provoking debate. As a pragmatic grower I agree with his intelligent perspective on the SA - but don't quite understand the personal dislike of MD.
But the SA views about returning to what sounds like a postition of an isolated England trying to dig for victory without even the 20th century technology of things like growmore is quaintly barking - a romantic fantasy that does not even begin to engage with the world that we live in now - whether we like it or not.
Yes - with the current idealisation of "local" and "organic" defined by distance of trasportation - we will have no banannas.
And the poorest people in the world will suffer.
I fully support JB - he is talking sense from the basis of both evidence and long experience - as opposed to the intellectual flabbiness of the SA and the vague environmental agenda.
Good to be back.
Chris
Monty Don Again!
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud
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Lurganspade
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like all single issue organisations the "SA" has one agenda and one agenda only, to return us to the donkey and cart era.
But that is only us the general public, they will carry on flying all over the world staying in top hotels, pontificating about others destroying the world!
I do not have a problem with any of they views or ideas, just when they try to impose them on me, or to get our stupid government to impose them on their behest.
The other problem is outsiders defending them, like when someone posts a justified criticism of any organisation, there is always someone complaining that they should not say such terrible things, and that that poster is right and all others are wrong.
And if you don't believe me, think of Mugabe and all who defend him!!
But that is only us the general public, they will carry on flying all over the world staying in top hotels, pontificating about others destroying the world!
I do not have a problem with any of they views or ideas, just when they try to impose them on me, or to get our stupid government to impose them on their behest.
The other problem is outsiders defending them, like when someone posts a justified criticism of any organisation, there is always someone complaining that they should not say such terrible things, and that that poster is right and all others are wrong.
And if you don't believe me, think of Mugabe and all who defend him!!
Buy land, they do not make it anymore!
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alan refail
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Lurganspade
Hardly a contribution to a debate
I can't reply to your rant as my one word response would be deleted (quite rightly) by the moderators.
Hardly a contribution to a debate
I can't reply to your rant as my one word response would be deleted (quite rightly) by the moderators.
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Lurganspade
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Hi Alan,
I actually liked Monty on GW.
When he was first offered the job, he made it quite clear, that for him to be the front man, they had to abide by his terms!
Which was "organic", "organic","organic", there was to be no mention of alternatives, no mention of "chemicals, and definately no mention of slug pellets.
He got the job!
No a very liberal view point, but as I said before, single issue jobsworths have tunnel vision.
If you have to swear, fair enough, go ahead, then let them delete it, if it makes you feel better!
I actually liked Monty on GW.
When he was first offered the job, he made it quite clear, that for him to be the front man, they had to abide by his terms!
Which was "organic", "organic","organic", there was to be no mention of alternatives, no mention of "chemicals, and definately no mention of slug pellets.
He got the job!
No a very liberal view point, but as I said before, single issue jobsworths have tunnel vision.
If you have to swear, fair enough, go ahead, then let them delete it, if it makes you feel better!
Buy land, they do not make it anymore!
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Chantal
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OK, time out guys. Some of the comments on here are becoming faintly libellous, so please, moderate your comments or this thread will be locked. 
Chantal
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
Hi Chantal,
I feel that the speech made by Monty Don at the Hay Festival was meant to be as controversial as it has turned out to be.
So far I do not see anything that has been written should cause you any grief.
The trouble is that by making inflamatory speeches Monty Don is trying to impose his views and that of the Soil Association on everybody. Remember that the SA are a minority group who are trying very hard to
make rules for the majority.
Apart from my flippant comments that, quite rightly, got picked up by Angi, nobody has come to the defence of Monty Don or the Soil Association.
This is really a blatant attempt by the Soil Association to use a very familiar face to try and bamboozle the public with what are quite a preposterous set of rules and intentions.
It would be a great pity to lock-up this thread because as yet I do not see anybody getting hot under the collar.
Sincerely,
JB.
I feel that the speech made by Monty Don at the Hay Festival was meant to be as controversial as it has turned out to be.
So far I do not see anything that has been written should cause you any grief.
The trouble is that by making inflamatory speeches Monty Don is trying to impose his views and that of the Soil Association on everybody. Remember that the SA are a minority group who are trying very hard to
make rules for the majority.
Apart from my flippant comments that, quite rightly, got picked up by Angi, nobody has come to the defence of Monty Don or the Soil Association.
This is really a blatant attempt by the Soil Association to use a very familiar face to try and bamboozle the public with what are quite a preposterous set of rules and intentions.
It would be a great pity to lock-up this thread because as yet I do not see anybody getting hot under the collar.
Sincerely,
JB.
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Chantal
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I appreciate your comments JB, but I have received a complaint from a forum member concerning this thread. I had already been watching pretty closely as I was concerned by early comments.
The situation, as far as I am aware (I've had this problem at work) is that if "defamatory" or "libellous" statements are made by members, then KG has a choice of removing the comments or being sued.
Comments are being made which I read (perhaps wrongly but I know I'm not alone) as being both personal and unnecessary to the discussion.
All I'm asking is that anyone making a posting thinks carefully before hitting submit and tries to avoid personal attacks on Monty Don.
Jason is currently on holiday in the USA or he'd be doing this; the last thing I want to do is lock the thread, or indeed get into a long discussion about what can and can't be said.
The situation, as far as I am aware (I've had this problem at work) is that if "defamatory" or "libellous" statements are made by members, then KG has a choice of removing the comments or being sued.
Comments are being made which I read (perhaps wrongly but I know I'm not alone) as being both personal and unnecessary to the discussion.
All I'm asking is that anyone making a posting thinks carefully before hitting submit and tries to avoid personal attacks on Monty Don.
Jason is currently on holiday in the USA or he'd be doing this; the last thing I want to do is lock the thread, or indeed get into a long discussion about what can and can't be said.
Chantal
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
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Cider Boys
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Perhaps I may be allowed to squeeze in a few words before this important thread has been locked.
This forum is principally about gardening and it is natural for members to hold strong views on a subject they care passionately about.
I have been known to have written a couple criticisms of the Soil Association in the past because I was incensed by their hijacking of the word ‘organic’. I believed that they were blinkered in their vision and the fact that the media (especially the BBC) seemed to accept their pontificating without question filled me with concern. However I believe that times are changing and the SA’s “everything has to be organic” slogan is being shown to be full of falsehoods and hypocracy. Further, every time the SA has been questioned alongside an expert on food production their arguments have been exposed as very wanting.
Now with Monty Don the SA has a celebrity mouth piece for their evil propaganda, it just proves how desperate they have become. Monty will try to persuade in his suave, enthusiastic and passionate manner the benefits of us all growing our food by SA organic rules, but he is a convert and a romantic and even his wonderful words will be proved as vacuous as previous attempts by the Soil Association have been. Together the pragmatists will win as we are right to trust in facts and science rather than myth and false dreams.
Best wishes to all
Barney
This forum is principally about gardening and it is natural for members to hold strong views on a subject they care passionately about.
I have been known to have written a couple criticisms of the Soil Association in the past because I was incensed by their hijacking of the word ‘organic’. I believed that they were blinkered in their vision and the fact that the media (especially the BBC) seemed to accept their pontificating without question filled me with concern. However I believe that times are changing and the SA’s “everything has to be organic” slogan is being shown to be full of falsehoods and hypocracy. Further, every time the SA has been questioned alongside an expert on food production their arguments have been exposed as very wanting.
Now with Monty Don the SA has a celebrity mouth piece for their evil propaganda, it just proves how desperate they have become. Monty will try to persuade in his suave, enthusiastic and passionate manner the benefits of us all growing our food by SA organic rules, but he is a convert and a romantic and even his wonderful words will be proved as vacuous as previous attempts by the Soil Association have been. Together the pragmatists will win as we are right to trust in facts and science rather than myth and false dreams.
Best wishes to all
Barney
the bottom line is the only people who have to listen to the SA are commercial organic producers who wish to be certified by them. as a gardener i have no reason to take any notice of them or to get wound up by their latest bright ideas 
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Cider Boys
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Oh, if only that were all the SA was about.
Believe me they want us all to garden in accordance with their dictates, that is their mission. Appease the SA at your peril.
Barney
Believe me they want us all to garden in accordance with their dictates, that is their mission. Appease the SA at your peril.
Barney
Hi Richard,
I appreciate as an amateur gardener that you can do what you please and you can call yourself organic but unless you sing from the SA Hymn Sheet according to them you are not.
By the strict letter of the law if you give your produce away and say that it is organically grown you are in breach of the law if you are not accredited by them, or one of the other accreditation organizations, irrespective of your amateur or professional status.
I come back to the original thread (without any facetious remarks) how happy are you with this particular paragraph from Monty Don's speech.
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"My attitude to politicians is that they are a pretty useless bunch on the whole," he said. "You have to become a rabble. One should scare them and pressure them, and subvert the system from the ground up."
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My personal thoughts on that paragraph is that it is a scurrilous statement of intent and when he uttered those words he knew full well that he was doing.
I do note that, apart from the occasional snipe, very few organic people have written in support of him.
To me the last sentence lays down what the SA have been doing for many many years.
Over 20 years ago a person, quite high in the SA echelons, told me that we will all be governed by them in the end because it will become the law as that was their declared intention.
JB.
I appreciate as an amateur gardener that you can do what you please and you can call yourself organic but unless you sing from the SA Hymn Sheet according to them you are not.
By the strict letter of the law if you give your produce away and say that it is organically grown you are in breach of the law if you are not accredited by them, or one of the other accreditation organizations, irrespective of your amateur or professional status.
I come back to the original thread (without any facetious remarks) how happy are you with this particular paragraph from Monty Don's speech.
***
"My attitude to politicians is that they are a pretty useless bunch on the whole," he said. "You have to become a rabble. One should scare them and pressure them, and subvert the system from the ground up."
***
My personal thoughts on that paragraph is that it is a scurrilous statement of intent and when he uttered those words he knew full well that he was doing.
I do note that, apart from the occasional snipe, very few organic people have written in support of him.
To me the last sentence lays down what the SA have been doing for many many years.
Over 20 years ago a person, quite high in the SA echelons, told me that we will all be governed by them in the end because it will become the law as that was their declared intention.
JB.
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Shallot Man
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I don't recall MD spouting his piece when he was with the BBC.
hi jb, broadly i agree with md ,politicians are a pretty useless bunch and you will get nowhere fighting them according to their rules, if you want to change something you have to go outside the system, if you follow their proceedures you will get absolutly newhere.
big business in the grocery trade relies on large quantities of cheap produce, they will squash the SA if they interfere too much , likewise the chemical companies make too much money from the garden market to allow the SA to ban their products , it just aint going to happen:D
im not happy that the SA have highjacked the "organic " lable , but thats all it is , not being able to call my cabbage organic doesnt change it in any way, the few people i give surplus to dont mind it not being labled, (or washed or packaged)
big business in the grocery trade relies on large quantities of cheap produce, they will squash the SA if they interfere too much , likewise the chemical companies make too much money from the garden market to allow the SA to ban their products , it just aint going to happen:D
im not happy that the SA have highjacked the "organic " lable , but thats all it is , not being able to call my cabbage organic doesnt change it in any way, the few people i give surplus to dont mind it not being labled, (or washed or packaged)