I have no manure can I use multi-purpose compost?

[Bibs]

Hello, I'm new here and also new to allotmenteering, so bear with me if this is a daft question.
As I have recently taken on an allotment, I dont have a stash of well rotted manure or compost. Can I mix in multi-purpose compost bought from the garden centre (3 big bags for a tenner) to boost my soil ready for spring? The soil seems ok but is pretty wet and a tad sticky, so I gather it is clay based and needs more humus. Is there enough nutrients in multi-purpose compost or would I be wasting time and money?
I have already built 4 raised beds as a start and thought I would mix the compost in with the soil ready for planting (just waiting for a bit of better weather).
Thanks
Bibs

[Johnboy]

Hi Bibs,
Welcome as a new contributor to this wonderful friendly forum.
I know exactly the dilemma that you are in as it takes time to scource manure and build up a reserve of home made compost.
You would find it easier and cheaper to use National Growmore fertilizer until you have managed to build up those reserves. If you follow the instructions on the packet you will not go far wrong. In the meantime try to scource as much manure and make as much compost as you can. I doubt if you will have enough by next year so you may have to use MMF again.

[Allan]

It all depends what you are trying to achieve. Multi-purpose compost is primarily a soil substitute inasmuch as it provides the physical characteristics of soil. However it has great limitations on nutrients. There is a fertiliser content but only enough to give the plants or seeds a start, it lasts about 3 weeks typically then you have to step in with feed, whether organic'tea', Miracle Grow,granular fertiliser or anything similar. If you have your own garden compost that will contain the organic matter for soil improvement but also as it rots down it will provide a large degree of the necessary nutrients as well. FYM, horse manure are similar but can tend to give an initial flush of nitrates which may be good or bad depending on the requirements of the crop. I don't think it would be wise to treat the multi-purpose compost as a total substitute although it could be handy to work in something like that at eaxh planting-out spot. You say you have raised beds, that is they are physically above the level of the surrounding ground, but it would be misleading to regard them as fully deep beds if you haven't added a considerable topping of FYM, horse manure or compost. A dressing of any fertiliser would be a totally different affair and would be no substitute for the organic matter. If the soil has been fallow for some time there could well be sufficient NPK in it already. Unfortunately the FYM in bags at garden centres is prohibitively expensive. Have another look locally for a riding stables, there are few places in the country without something equestrian, (it would have to be the older stuff if you want to use it immediately in quantity), and your local council may have composted household waste for sale.
You might also consider using growbags as such for the first season then incorporating their contents when spent.
Allan

[vivie veg]

Hi Bibs,

Welome to Kitchen garden!

I would suggest that you ask the other allotmenteers what they do, I appreciate that the middle of Manchester may not be stuffed with riding stables, I knew someone in Manchester that use to get spent brewery grain from the various breweries. It used to come in lorry loads (20+ tonnes) and was shared by the allotmenteers. However this probably was FRESH and needed time to rot down.

I would also recommend growing Jeruselem Artichokes, they produce sooooo much stems and leaves that you will have a nice compost heap next autumn or just use it as a mulch over winter (esp if you could shread it first). It is related to sunflower so I suppose that you would also get a lot of dry matter from them, also nice heads of sunflower seed to eat (yourself or the birds!)

Beg neighbours for rabbit, guinea pig etc. cage cleanings for your compost heap, it can't be used straight away but will help to build up the stock.

Don't worry if you can't get your soil into perfect condition this year..it will take time. I took over a field last year that had been close grazed by sheep for centuries and was clay with very little organic matter in it, but I still managed a good crop of most things having resorted to artifical fertilisers like growmore mentioned above. If you can find an agricultural merchants up there you should be able to pick up (with the help of another person) a 50kg bag of fertiliser for less than £10 (10-10-21+extras) this is far better value than your local garden centre for growmore, but you might negate any saving with fuel costs to get it! Again ask the others they might have a buying in scheme for lots of thing so that they get bulk discount or spread the delivery charges around a bit.

Good luck

[Johnboy]

Hi Vivie Veg,
National Growmore is available locally to me in now 25Kg bags as 50Kg's are now out. Safety at work Act,
Too many Hernias! I actually us Vitax products but I thought that as Bibs is new to gardening he/she cannot go far wrong with it.
The trouble with larger quantities somebody new to gardening would possibly have the tendency to overdo it! Certainly use a 10:10:21 later on in the year but not really from the off.
Allan,
By incorporating composts and manures into the soil you encourage worm activity whereas MMF do not.
Bibs should be looking to get a good healthy Humus and almost anything that is at least partially decaded is better than nothing. These things do not happen over night and I only mention National Growmore as a stop gap and nothing else.
As Bibs is new to gardening I feel it should be one step at a time and it should not be complicated.
Keep it simple Bibs and it will turn out fine.

[oldherbaceous]

Hello bibs.
I can just about remember when i first had a alloment. there seemed so much to learn and remember. You will always get the odd person coming up telling you that your not doing it right.
There are so many different ways of doing things no body is right all of the time.
So take the advice that suits you best.
I think if i was going to use bought compost i would just use it in drills for seed sowing just to get them started.
The really good thing about this forum is that you get some really good ideas to some difficult questions.
So Bibs you get out there and just enjoy yourself.

Kind regards Old hebaceous

We will always get some sort of weather.

[Allan]

By going for raised beds it is essential to counteract the tendency to dry out by incorporating humus-forming materials, initially as a mulch, certainly not dug in deeply. A peat based compost is dead material and won't give the desired effect. Any granular fertiliser such as Growmore is no substitute for humus, by my reckoning it could be largely wasted with no humus to absorb the chemicals which can wash away.

[julie]

Very interested in this topic - I have just taken over an allotment and am busy digging - my dilemma completely, how do I get my soil up to scratch for planting. We are also very lucky to have a local brewery sending us their spent hops, and I have been digging this in, but would it be enough - the soil is like clay - I have only just starting digging it in - how long does it need to be in soil before I can plant?
So many questions - although I love the idea of my allotment I am quite scared of failing, as everyone elses plots are so wonderful - help me please.......

[Chris]

Hi

Congratulations on doing the hard part of digging the beds.

I do remember my first veg. plot when there was no compost or manure to hand. I did exactly what Johnboy suggests - used the cheapest ferilizer (Growmore) and applied it in March, waited until the soil had dried out and warmed up a bit (mid April it was) and got on with the sowing and planting with good results and a few failures.

That summer I collected horse manure from the local riding school and also made a compost heap. The next year was easier. Use the bags of shop bought compost for sowing seeds in modules rather than diluting it on the beds.

Good luck

Chris

[Bibs]

Hi, and thankyou for your replies.
I have been told by other plot holders that the soil is pretty good so perhaps a 'suck it and see' approach is best to start with. I dont want to overload the soil (if thats at all possible.) and I'll definitely get some Growmore!
There are a few stables not too far away, so I'm sure I can get a few bags of manure to get me going, and of course the council sell compost at our local recycling centre, forgot about that.
I love the resourcefullnes of allotmenteers. One plot holder has told me never to buy anything, keep your eye on skips for bits and pieces. I've already had a car full of broken pallets which made a smashing potting bench.
I like the idea of green manure, so I may look into that too.
All tips and ideas are gratefully received.

Thanks
Bibs

[Allan]

You may like to consider fish,blood and bone compound fertiliser which can work out about the same price as Growmore as long as you buy it in bulk but being based on organic materials it has a longer lasting effect than Growmore. The large drums or buckets sold in most GCs should last several seasons.The type you really need is that which has had inorganic additives to balance up the nutrients. This means that it fails to meet the Soil Association Organic Certification rules but is better at its job which is what really matters. If the soil is average and has been worked in the past I doubt if it is seriously deficient in nutrients apart from maybe phosphate so don't overdo the additives, just a light sprinkle where you want to sow or plant then mix it in well.
I have been seeking an estimate of the timescale by which one should judge the effect of such materials and it is sadly very hard to find any helpful advice but don't let that put you off, we have worked the soil for many years with one application of fertiliser at sowing or planting time and never noticed any serious deficiency apart from the need for a boost of potash on tomatoes.
Allan

[julie]

Hi - thanks for responses - I shall definitely get some growmore this week for digging in - the little hardware shop where I got my seed potatoes from today advised me to dig horse manure in for my potatoes - dig a trench, layer it with manure and then put pots in, not to do it until the end of March and then cover with fleece just in case of frost. I happily collected some more beer hops today and put on my plot at home (yes I have just dug a plot at home as well, I must be mad) and with the light evenings I feel very inspired and enthusiastic - great site by the way, and great advice.

[Cider Boys]

To Bibs and Julie

I would not worry too much, just get planting. If the land is heavy chances are it will be fairly rich in nutrients (heavy land holds the goodness). When you get some manure/compost you can add it when necessary. You can line the seed drills as previously suggested with bought multi-purpose stuff to give the seeds a fine tilth and a good start and rake in some National Growmore if you wish, but I would use use it sparingly.

However, manure is not always the answer to your problems; my son hauled tons of bullock manure 2 years ago for our onions and broad beans and was swamped with fat hen from the manure. Last years lot was better and we ploughed it in for our broad beans which we plant from September through to now. If you can't get any animal manure then I agree growing an area of green manure makes sense.

Be careful with the manure especially horse manure since it can carry tetanus bacteria spores. I advise you to wear gloves and not let it near any cuts or abrasions and make sure you have had tetanus injections.

[lizzie]

Hi Bibs and Julie and welcome to the forum.

You could also try getting some pelleted chicken manure from the garden centre. It is fairly aromatic so put it down as you're about to leave, if you catch my drift

You could also try calcified seaweed as an alternative. I use this on pretty much everything and there's never been a problem.

Good luck to you bibs and julie and never be afraid of asking for help. We've got the greatest people with the best knowledge on here so always ask.

[julie]

Hi Lizzie - funny you should say about chicken pellets - they had growmore and pellets on offer in Countrywide today - is it OK to put both on - I am inclined to throw everything on just to be on the safe side - I am now addicted to this site