American English Vs English

[lizzie]

Jenny

The changes are to be seen in literature, music, magazine articles (including The Times which is the only paper I read) and mock GCSE papers. If you look on your pc under languages you can choose English UK or English American.

My kids do not watch mutch tv. Ones studying for 10 GCSE's and working at the weekend, together with doing classical ballet, ballroom, modern and drama.

My 10 year old is outside most of the time, either at the stables, playing football or at the lottie.

All i'm saying is, the differences are there and in a very wide range of media. Also, as far as I can see no-body is slagging off Lakeview. I'm sure this discussion has been taken with very good grace. There are many funny areas of the languagetoo, especially my poor Canadian friend. I'd have paid money to see the expression on his face!!!!

But, then again, I have an evil sense of humour

[Jenny Green]

Sorry if I offended Lizzy! My comment was meant as tongue in cheek!

The bit I felt was slagging off Americans was this from Piglet:
Without denegrading the Americans, so few of them either need to or want to travel outside of the states that they dont get to grasp the richness of the worlds diversity and their media is so home biased you can almost forgive them for not knowing any better. Whilst in the Carribean a few years ago, we struck up some good holiday friendships with Americans and it was almost comical their naievety. I must say though they were great fun, very generous and good company.

Now, personally, I wouldn't denigraTe an entire nationality based on some people I'd met on holiday.
I've met some naive Americans and some very worldly-wise.
Regarding the influence of American on British English I agree. There are many other nations of the world where English is similarly infiltrating their languages. You have to take the long term view, though. I'm sure that back in 1100 the natives were saying 'this bloody Norman French is taking over. It's a sheep, not a mouton!' Now, we're all rightly proud that our language is rich with words.

[lizzie]

It's ok Jenny, no offence has been caused by you at all. Quite the reverse. I find it stimulating to have a chat about things.

Makes life interesting. It's just that I find that the media is giving us more USA and not enough UK stuff. The kids pick up on this and adapt accordingly.

As you say, i'm sure the Anglo Saxons were saying the same about the Normans.

Mind you, I like the last words ever supposedly spoken by King Harold. They were

"That lot'll have some f****** eye out with them there arrows!"

[peter]

Why do americans get so verbose?
Especially their military.
"I'll take that under advisment", "At this moment in time", "Mobile domestic waste recycling operative". "Affermative".

Is it a virus, because we seem to be catching the habit now.

[Mr Potato Head]

Obviously the weather's too cold for weeding, so you're all in here!

Having just come back from meeting friends in Italy, it's interesting to get their take on it. We were bemoaning our lack of language skills compared to our Italian friends. At this, they looked confused and said...

'What's the problem? You speak English!'

Read into this what you will... (and I know you will! )

As for American v English... and the yanks invading our sacred language... If we kicked all the 'foreign' phrases out of English, it would cease to exist!

Language is a construct, a social device to aid communication, and as such needs to change to adapt... let's just say, if I was 'using a computer' fifty years ago, I would more likely be talking to my grandmother than tapping a keyboard; a monitor would be watching me, rather than the other way around; and I certainly wouldn't be spending most of my working day pushing a mouse around its pad.

[Tara]

I suppose I can mix in here a bit, being that I am American and, like Lakeview, have lived here a while (10 years) and am married to an Englishman. Firstly, if we are going to just throw in circumstantial evidence, I have found that by far my knowledge of grammar is much better than my English friends of my own age or younger. From about the early 70s in England, it seems it was no longer considered neccessary to know what a full stop or a comma was used for. My husband and his mother (who was a teacher) agree with this.

I also seem to remember reading a Bill Bryson book many years ago which compared many aspects of British English vs. American English. I believe his take on it was that some Americanisms were/are the more traditional or original phrases/words and that the differences have arrisen from language fashion in Great Britian. Either way the diffences always make for a funny and interesting conversation now and again, especially when a Brit learns the American word for Bum Bag.

Anyway, who really cares. Successful comunication seems to come down to empathy and listening more than language. Now lets talk about something else.

[LakeView]

Thanks for the support, Tara. But be careful, I was scolded in strong tones on the other thread never to use the term 'Brit' any more than I should use a shortened form for Japanese!

But I have to say that, for me, it is all the BritONS around me who have taught me to say the abbreviated 'Brits' so I'm not feeling too guilty.

...It's the US military-speak that use ridiculous phrases. Most other American marketing and promotions (ad copy) phrases are in fact much more succinct or terse in the US than in Britain. Compare product literature some time and you'll see what I mean.

[paul.r]

Hi Tara, I think it must have been the same bright spark (the one who thought kids didnt need to know the meaning of full stops and commas etc,) that also decided the physical excercise wasnt needed, discipline also. I'll let others add to the list. Somebody has a lot to answer for with regards to our education policies post 1970. Just thought of another mental arithmatic, oh yes and chanting times tables..Paul.

[peterf]

bloody hell,in light of recent threads i can feel an english crusade developing TALLY HO.

[pigletwillie]

Jenny for goodness sake, loosen your corsets and stop getting uptight,

My view on the Americans on Holiday was a small take on my actual live experience with them, My knowledge isnt just to a couple of people on holliday, family and friends are either American or American based. I tried to carefully word it to not be taken as a "pop" at anyone, so please do not judge my awareness from one small comment, I do not judge you from yours

The American passport take up rate is one of the smallest in the Western world (27%) and this combined with the very blinkered American media does make then on the whole insular to the world at large. If you have ever seen American television you would grant the BBC a licence for life. Yes, Many Americans do travel and are not naieve.

I am sure Lakeview would give us an insight to the differences between our Tv and American Tv.

[LakeView]

American TV. Hmmm. Growing up in the northeast US before cable OR satellite, we received only one channel! (ABC). If I recall correctly, of the 22 minute evening news program at 6.00, about 5-6 minutes was 'Foreign News'. Yes, that's not very much I agree. Public Television has much better balance. But don't forget the obvious: America is a BIG country with lots of states and geographic area and lots of cities where things can happen. This means two things: lots of places for news to happen (we only hear bad news, of course). It also means that to travel outside the US means to go to Canada, Mexico, or somewhere a very long plane ride which costs a lot of money to most ordinary Americans. Don't underestimate this simple fact. International travel is very expensive when you live in the US. (How many Russians travel? ok, maybe that's not a suitable comparison). but don't forget that there are a lot of ordinary, 'blue-collar' Americans who barely earn enough money to make ends meet. The rich may be very rich, but the majority aren't.

Yes, of course you'll find lots of people who have never been outside their own home state (ever listened to Garrison Keillor and his monologue from A Prairie Home Companion about his family in Lake Wobegon? American National Public Radio is - dare I say - better than Radio 4! NPR is one of the only things I miss about the US!)

I came to Britain on a class trip with 24 fellow classmates years ago (not telling when!). Rumour was that one classmate had never seen the Atlantic Ocean!

I watched a lot of good US television (Hill Street Blues, St Elsewhere, LA Law, Northern Exposure - that genre) but actually watched little mainstream TV in the years before coming to Britain.

Commercials are all about selling products in the US; e.g. 30-second spot at the Super Bowl. A lot of commercials here are about upcoming programs (a much larger proportion than in the US). And of course you see a lot more of the human body (after 9 or is it 10?) here than is permitted in the States!

[Anonymous]

Hi Lakeview,

I would have to agree with you about some of the American comedy/sitcom-type programmes. Hill Street Blues is currently being repeated on More4 at c.2.05 or 2.35 p.m. It really is/was a wonderful programme!

Other American programmes we have thoroughly enjoyed are Cheers and Frasier. They are just two programmes 'off the top of my head' that I remember.
Must admit didn't watch Friends. Being 30something for the second time around, it didn't quite fit in with our 'lifestyle'.

Going off at a tangent one thing that really gets on my T-I-T-S (nerves) is when children are referred to as KIDS. You got a load of young goats out there? Children, boys, girls, BUT NOT KIDS!!! HATE IT!!

One thing I suggested earlier was to go to your local library, and borrow the book by Melvyn Bragg, The Adventure of English. It really is a fascinating read. Just get out there and read it.

valmarg

[Jenny Green]

Piglet, rustle, rustle, squeak, squeak.... ahhhhhh! So much better!

[Mr Potato Head]

...who was the edumacation minister in the 70's? (Speaking, as I do, as someone that was educated from 1978-1997)... I still miss the milk...

[peter]

A classmate's brother went to the US through their church in the seventies, part of this visit was to work in a summer camp. The kids clocked his accent..
"Where are you from?"
"England."
"What state's that in?"

The evening news devoted more time to a four car pile up than impending war elsewhere in the world.

But to be fair America is a very, very, big place, where a great deal happens every day and other countries, Canada, Mexico and the Carribean excepted, a long long way away.