A new series of 'Costing the Earth' began on BBC Radio 4 at 9pm on Thursday and was repeated on Friday at 3pm.
I listened to a collection of paragons of virtue and to the entrance of the Water Police, the condemnation of livestock because they fart (don’t we all) and how we as meat eaters are guilty of destroying the Brazilian and other rain forests. We are also guilty of taking the water out of thirsty Spaniards mouths and others.
I learn how much water it takes to make a pint of Beer (so what) and god knows how much water it takes to make all sorts of things.
What makes me annoyed is the way these smart arses are trying to make the average British person guilty of all these so called heinous crimes. These so called words of wisdom are supposed to make us all want to reform but mostly the answers to these problems lays outside the domain of the average person. I feel that because of this people will switch off to problems and ultimately not even bother to recycle things or cease to worry about plastic bags, cows farting and water and carbon problems.
The trouble is that we hear about all these things but as soon as the powers that be try to do something, be it a new reservoir or make electricity by wind or water or grow GM or build a new power station by nuclear or coal or do any other mortal thing it is these very same smart arses who become NIMBY’s or ecological martyrs and block any advantages or progress simply because it may not fall in with their beliefs. So in the end nothing gets done properly.
I feel that it is fair to say that it is the smart arses who are costing the earth and not the ‘Mr or Mrs Average’ who are being sent on a guilt trip because these problems are being presented in such a negative fashion.
JB.
Costing the Earth or Doom and Gloom for the Masses
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Geoff
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Why are none of them brave enough to say there is one sure fire solution - depopulation?
The Chinese are repeatedly vilified for their effect on the environment but they are the only nation at least trying to do something about population. Contraception and abortion should be freely available to all and organisations campaigning against them should be criticised as much as people who waste water or whatever is the crime of the day.
The Chinese are repeatedly vilified for their effect on the environment but they are the only nation at least trying to do something about population. Contraception and abortion should be freely available to all and organisations campaigning against them should be criticised as much as people who waste water or whatever is the crime of the day.
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Chantal
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As I understand it, they're not such smart arses anyway. It's not farting livestock that's the problem, it's the burping that causes the damage.
I refuse to feel guilty, I do everything I can and more to help save the planet. I do get depressed when people I know say "I don't bother recycling as my little bit is insignificant"
I refuse to feel guilty, I do everything I can and more to help save the planet. I do get depressed when people I know say "I don't bother recycling as my little bit is insignificant"
Chantal
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
Sorry Johnboy, but I disagree wholeheartedly.
Leaders are employed by us on a short cycle, making them wary of going against the general level of public opinion and, on a pragmatic basis they know they can change nothing if they don't get elected. Therefore in order to change anything we have to sway public opinion to accept individual responsibility for our over-consumption and wasteful lifestyles.
With 6 billion on the planet,(and as has been pointed out), no action to limit the continuing boom, we have to start thinking how we share out the earth's resources more equably. As we are using three times the sustainable level in Britain, that of necessity means we need to reduce our consumption. Most of us would be just as happy and healthy if we ate a bit less meat, took one plane journey in two or three years etc, etc.
We all got lucky when we were born in a developed country, but we don't have a 'right' to foreign holidays, or any other luxuries while others have nothing.
On a purely selfish view, if we fail to sort ourselves out:use technology to reduce waste and create power, and learn to enjoy some of the lovely free things (like,er gardening?) instead, then we can expect the poor and displaced of the world to bring the problems to us with mass population movements and terrorism.
I'm not a natural hairshirt type, for the record I love driving and have a list of places round the world I'd like to see.. but the future, if we pursue our current ways scares the **** out of me.
Leaders are employed by us on a short cycle, making them wary of going against the general level of public opinion and, on a pragmatic basis they know they can change nothing if they don't get elected. Therefore in order to change anything we have to sway public opinion to accept individual responsibility for our over-consumption and wasteful lifestyles.
With 6 billion on the planet,(and as has been pointed out), no action to limit the continuing boom, we have to start thinking how we share out the earth's resources more equably. As we are using three times the sustainable level in Britain, that of necessity means we need to reduce our consumption. Most of us would be just as happy and healthy if we ate a bit less meat, took one plane journey in two or three years etc, etc.
We all got lucky when we were born in a developed country, but we don't have a 'right' to foreign holidays, or any other luxuries while others have nothing.
On a purely selfish view, if we fail to sort ourselves out:use technology to reduce waste and create power, and learn to enjoy some of the lovely free things (like,er gardening?) instead, then we can expect the poor and displaced of the world to bring the problems to us with mass population movements and terrorism.
I'm not a natural hairshirt type, for the record I love driving and have a list of places round the world I'd like to see.. but the future, if we pursue our current ways scares the **** out of me.
Hi Di,
In my posting I am complaining about the negative effect that trying to send everybody on a guilt trip will have which is not the best way to get the population to react favourably.
To tell me the devastating news that it takes god knows how many litres of water to produce a pint is in my view about the most bloody stupid way of drawing peoples attention to the plight.
They come out with such things but do not say that by how much less could it or should it take.
I am afraid that people will dismiss things rather than take the actions that are so desperately needed.
JB.
In my posting I am complaining about the negative effect that trying to send everybody on a guilt trip will have which is not the best way to get the population to react favourably.
To tell me the devastating news that it takes god knows how many litres of water to produce a pint is in my view about the most bloody stupid way of drawing peoples attention to the plight.
They come out with such things but do not say that by how much less could it or should it take.
I am afraid that people will dismiss things rather than take the actions that are so desperately needed.
JB.
Hi Johnboy,
I agree that no one likes feeling naggged, but you remember the early adverts to make people seat belts? They were pretty grim. People muttered about it and bought dumb T shirts with fake straps across and all, but now wouldn't dream of putting themselves at risk.
Sometimes you have to overstate things to get anyone to listen at all.
Rather than worrying that extra pint is 'costing the earth', it might be more useful to highlight the massive water use that goes into producing cotton. That along with the low low standard of living for workers in Asia is what puts jeans on the shelves of supermarkets for £5.
Sorry at great risk of ranting here....or did I do that already?
I agree that no one likes feeling naggged, but you remember the early adverts to make people seat belts? They were pretty grim. People muttered about it and bought dumb T shirts with fake straps across and all, but now wouldn't dream of putting themselves at risk.
Sometimes you have to overstate things to get anyone to listen at all.
Rather than worrying that extra pint is 'costing the earth', it might be more useful to highlight the massive water use that goes into producing cotton. That along with the low low standard of living for workers in Asia is what puts jeans on the shelves of supermarkets for £5.
Sorry at great risk of ranting here....or did I do that already?
When I read JB's original post I thought that it would provoke some diverse comments rather more, in fact, than it did.
I did find myself agreeing with JB in much of what he was saying but refrained from replying as I like to follow a well constructed discussion providing it doesn't get personal.
On a purely personal note I find that Governments tend to be very contradictive as do many people too. The ongoing criticism of allegedly over polluting 4 x 4 motor vehicles and then agreeing to a fourth runway at a major airport is just one example
Perhaps if everyone was singing the same song, in tune we may get somewhere
I did find myself agreeing with JB in much of what he was saying but refrained from replying as I like to follow a well constructed discussion providing it doesn't get personal.
On a purely personal note I find that Governments tend to be very contradictive as do many people too. The ongoing criticism of allegedly over polluting 4 x 4 motor vehicles and then agreeing to a fourth runway at a major airport is just one example
Perhaps if everyone was singing the same song, in tune we may get somewhere
I am in my own little world, ...it's OK, ...they know me there!
Why is it that the ordinary person, that is, you and I, are encouraged to recycle, save resources and all the rest of it, when larger organisations can squander resources to their heart's content? I know I am on my hobby horse again, but why did we spend x thousand pounds on fireworks in London this New Year's Eve, why are the millions going on the preparation for the Olympic Games, why are public buildings lit up to the hilt, why do many business people have to travel thousands of miles a year by air when their dealings could be conducted by telephone or other modern wizardry? The energy spent must be enormous and the pollution far greater than individuals' efforts combined.
Right, I'll shut up now and go back to planning our allotment for 2008.
Right, I'll shut up now and go back to planning our allotment for 2008.
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Chantal
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I agree Monika and if you want to be really depressed it wasn't thousands they spent on the fireworks, the announcer on Sky said it was a million.
Chantal
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
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Primrose
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Monika, I couldn't agree with you more. When you see the vast amounts of waste and energy squandered by the big organisations, institutions and the government, it makes our individual efforts to recycle, compost and instal low energy light bulbs like spitting into the wind. But if we don't start at our humble level, where do we start?
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KGAdmin
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Personally, I strongly agree with Geoff
The problem isn't so much the amount of pollution by cause, it's simply the sheer number of people and pressure on resources itself that's the problem.
It took 1000 generations for the world's population to get to 1 billion
To took 1 generation for it for get to 6 billion
Still, you try and find a top-level debate on the environment (such as The Kyoto Protocol) where population control is discussed. It just never happens - because it's one of the natural instincts that man - as intelligent as we supposedly are these days - still dare not try and control.
China has with its one child rule to be fair, but look at the problems this has caused.
You try and suggest to a friend or relation to only have one child - it can't be done. Now try asking a stranger to only have one child. Impossible.
Theoretically, this should be simple - only have one car - "ok" - only have one child "ok" - but in reality, its such a strong 'maternal' emotion, how are you ever going to do it?
I strongly fear it it's not climate change itself that will cause a major catastrophe first - but the swelling population and its demands.
My personal opinion anyway..
KGAdmin)
The problem isn't so much the amount of pollution by cause, it's simply the sheer number of people and pressure on resources itself that's the problem.
It took 1000 generations for the world's population to get to 1 billion
To took 1 generation for it for get to 6 billion
Still, you try and find a top-level debate on the environment (such as The Kyoto Protocol) where population control is discussed. It just never happens - because it's one of the natural instincts that man - as intelligent as we supposedly are these days - still dare not try and control.
China has with its one child rule to be fair, but look at the problems this has caused.
You try and suggest to a friend or relation to only have one child - it can't be done. Now try asking a stranger to only have one child. Impossible.
Theoretically, this should be simple - only have one car - "ok" - only have one child "ok" - but in reality, its such a strong 'maternal' emotion, how are you ever going to do it?
I strongly fear it it's not climate change itself that will cause a major catastrophe first - but the swelling population and its demands.
My personal opinion anyway..
KGAdmin)
Hi Monika,Primrose and Di,
I listened to another programme on Saturday Morning
The Farming Week and the Spanish water situation was mentioned on this programme in an entirely different light. In Costing the Earth the way the water situation in Spain was portrayed as the Spaniards being willfully reckless with their water supply but in truth they are building desalination plants to deal with irrigation and these desalination plants will be in surplus in due course and will be able to remedy the shortfalls in the aquifers. In Costing the Earth there was simply no mention of this which made all of us and the Spaniards guilty of misuse of water. Apart from being a very negative point I feel that it really was a dishonest report. When a programme commits, what is dishonesty to me, it puts every mortal thing said on that programme open to question. If they cannot tell the truth on one point all the other points may well be the same.
Apart from that there are now several thousand people who are spreading rooftop rhetoric about the Spanish.
I shall listen to the other five programmes but I very much doubt if I will change my mind. One of the programmes is to contain a report on GM. That will no doubt having me heaving my boot at the radio.
JB.
I listened to another programme on Saturday Morning
The Farming Week and the Spanish water situation was mentioned on this programme in an entirely different light. In Costing the Earth the way the water situation in Spain was portrayed as the Spaniards being willfully reckless with their water supply but in truth they are building desalination plants to deal with irrigation and these desalination plants will be in surplus in due course and will be able to remedy the shortfalls in the aquifers. In Costing the Earth there was simply no mention of this which made all of us and the Spaniards guilty of misuse of water. Apart from being a very negative point I feel that it really was a dishonest report. When a programme commits, what is dishonesty to me, it puts every mortal thing said on that programme open to question. If they cannot tell the truth on one point all the other points may well be the same.
Apart from that there are now several thousand people who are spreading rooftop rhetoric about the Spanish.
I shall listen to the other five programmes but I very much doubt if I will change my mind. One of the programmes is to contain a report on GM. That will no doubt having me heaving my boot at the radio.
JB.
