I've just started growing veg for the first time this year and am enjoying it very much but i am not sure about sowing broad beans.Is there a right or wrong way to put the seed in to rootrainers because some are growing downwards.
Help!!!!!
Broad beans
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I've just started growing veg for the first time this year and am enjoying it very much but i am not sure about sowing broad beans.Is there a right or wrong way to put the seed in to rootrainers because some are growing downwards.
Help!!!!!
There is a lot of theorising about this so I did a trial of 15 pots of each of the possible ways, apart from the obvious upside down way based on examination of the edge of the bean.No set had more than one that failed to grow all right but I personally favour putting them on their flat side as long as they are at sufficient depth. It's a test which anyone can do for themselves and shows that it really doesn't matter.
Allan
Allan
Last edited by Allan on Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Josie,
By planting any bean seed scar down you cannot go wrong. If as Allan says you plant them on their sides it means that not only the root has to contort to grow down the rising shoot has to do the same to grow up. Why put the plant through that which is unnecessary. With Broad Beans the seed will normally sit upright on the scar and all you do is sow it as it sits.
JB.
By planting any bean seed scar down you cannot go wrong. If as Allan says you plant them on their sides it means that not only the root has to contort to grow down the rising shoot has to do the same to grow up. Why put the plant through that which is unnecessary. With Broad Beans the seed will normally sit upright on the scar and all you do is sow it as it sits.
JB.
Hi Josie,
With Runner Beans you do exactly the same. If you take a runner bean in your hand looking at the scar then run your finger over the scar you will find that one side of the scar there is a small sharp mound and the other side is smooth. The Radical comes from a very small hole just outside the scar on the smooth side. This is generally visible. The root grows out and straight down without any interruption to growth.
The bean will swell and the Testa (outer cover) will split revealing the Cotyledons and the growing Plumule (growing shoot) this extends horizontally and then begins to make it's way to the surface vertically. It will break the surface in a bent attitude and this is natures may of protecting the growing head. It will then straighten up and go on growing skywards by which time the first two true leaves will appear. The Cotyledons are leaves that provide the equivalent to mothers milk to the newly growing plant and continue to feed the plant until the store of food is expended at which point they shrivel and drop off the plant. With French Beans the cotyledons appear above the soil but do exactly the same job and when the food is expended they too drop off the plant. It is these cotyledons that Mice find so attractive so you really must protect your plants from these 'little darlings' especially at this stage of their lives. When the food is expended Mice generally do not attack any plants. Slugs are your next concern and I feel that pellets should be used to protect them when the plants are young. As the season goes on the lower stems harden up and then the slugs generally leave the plants alone.
Hope this is of help to you.
JB.
With Runner Beans you do exactly the same. If you take a runner bean in your hand looking at the scar then run your finger over the scar you will find that one side of the scar there is a small sharp mound and the other side is smooth. The Radical comes from a very small hole just outside the scar on the smooth side. This is generally visible. The root grows out and straight down without any interruption to growth.
The bean will swell and the Testa (outer cover) will split revealing the Cotyledons and the growing Plumule (growing shoot) this extends horizontally and then begins to make it's way to the surface vertically. It will break the surface in a bent attitude and this is natures may of protecting the growing head. It will then straighten up and go on growing skywards by which time the first two true leaves will appear. The Cotyledons are leaves that provide the equivalent to mothers milk to the newly growing plant and continue to feed the plant until the store of food is expended at which point they shrivel and drop off the plant. With French Beans the cotyledons appear above the soil but do exactly the same job and when the food is expended they too drop off the plant. It is these cotyledons that Mice find so attractive so you really must protect your plants from these 'little darlings' especially at this stage of their lives. When the food is expended Mice generally do not attack any plants. Slugs are your next concern and I feel that pellets should be used to protect them when the plants are young. As the season goes on the lower stems harden up and then the slugs generally leave the plants alone.
Hope this is of help to you.
JB.
JOhnboy, it would have helped if you had explained what you meant by "the scar".Failing an explanation I took it that you were talking about the place where the root comes out, and where the tiny hole is.
I did a Google for images of the germinating bean and the best that I could find gives the scientific names of the parts, but in such small letters that it is very difficult to be sure what the words are.
However if one takes the scar as being the old attachment point in the pod and puts this at the lowest point I would then describe it as being on end. I certainly had this position in my trial but i did take the trouble to have the tiny root tip pointing downwards which is identical to what you mean and it fared no better than the other positions, you can't improve much on 14 out of 15.
I did a Google for images of the germinating bean and the best that I could find gives the scientific names of the parts, but in such small letters that it is very difficult to be sure what the words are.
However if one takes the scar as being the old attachment point in the pod and puts this at the lowest point I would then describe it as being on end. I certainly had this position in my trial but i did take the trouble to have the tiny root tip pointing downwards which is identical to what you mean and it fared no better than the other positions, you can't improve much on 14 out of 15.
Allan,
I'm so sorry that you do not understand the terminology of the word Scar. It is as you have assumed the place where the bean was attached to the plant in the pod. Oh of course the Pod is where the beans grow collectively on the plant. Get my drift!
Nobody has said that the beans will grow in any position you care to plant them but the question asked was for the best position. I have explained this for the benefit of Rosie who is new to gardening and wants to learn. You, on the other hand, have been gardening for almost as long as I have and should by now know this.
It is of no consequence to me how you grow your beans and I feel this should be the end of it.
JB.
I'm so sorry that you do not understand the terminology of the word Scar. It is as you have assumed the place where the bean was attached to the plant in the pod. Oh of course the Pod is where the beans grow collectively on the plant. Get my drift!
Nobody has said that the beans will grow in any position you care to plant them but the question asked was for the best position. I have explained this for the benefit of Rosie who is new to gardening and wants to learn. You, on the other hand, have been gardening for almost as long as I have and should by now know this.
It is of no consequence to me how you grow your beans and I feel this should be the end of it.
JB.
Hi Josie
Don't worry your plants will grow which ever way you put them in - that is their only purpose in life. At this time of the year it really doesn't matter because they will sort themlelves out - which is more than I can say about the old guys picking a fights over your question. I know whose advice I trust but will leave that for you to work out.
Don't worry your plants will grow which ever way you put them in - that is their only purpose in life. At this time of the year it really doesn't matter because they will sort themlelves out - which is more than I can say about the old guys picking a fights over your question. I know whose advice I trust but will leave that for you to work out.
Chris
Chris, you are largely correct, my trial shows that the beans will usually sort themselves out but it is possible to plant too shallowly so that the plant pushes itself out of the soil. I have had that happen occasionally, easily sorted in the greenhouse by a bit of fingerwork. If you put them in at a decent depth it doesn't happen.
I did a very extensive websearch and could find no website where this topic has been discussed so it is not a major problem.
Of much more consequence when you have mice in the area is that they dig up the plants to eat the cotyledon. The way to stop his is to bury a cut-off drinks bottle at a depth ofat least 3 inches surrounding the plant. Alternatively for beans raised in pots is that when planting out the mature plants you remove the cotyledons, by that stage they have largely served their purpose.
Allan
I did a very extensive websearch and could find no website where this topic has been discussed so it is not a major problem.
Of much more consequence when you have mice in the area is that they dig up the plants to eat the cotyledon. The way to stop his is to bury a cut-off drinks bottle at a depth ofat least 3 inches surrounding the plant. Alternatively for beans raised in pots is that when planting out the mature plants you remove the cotyledons, by that stage they have largely served their purpose.
Allan
Hi Chris,
If you start your Runner Beans off in pots and you put them scar up you will get into a right old pickle. If you grow them directly into the soil then the bean will orientate itself to the proper growing attitude.
Guess what Mr, that is Scar Down!
JB.
If you start your Runner Beans off in pots and you put them scar up you will get into a right old pickle. If you grow them directly into the soil then the bean will orientate itself to the proper growing attitude.
Guess what Mr, that is Scar Down!
JB.
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Compo
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Absolutely, in the ground they fall wherever nature lets them fall if they propogate natures way, which means that the wind shakes the seed out of the brittle rotting pod, or the pod falls on the ground, this usually means the bean is planted flat, which is how I do my broadbeans, rather randomly in a five inch wide trench, I have great plants and a good harvest.
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Mike Vogel
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I feel like St Paul on the way to Damascus. I've always sown beans scar upwards and have never had the most wonderful germination results. I'm now looking forward to a bumper crop of runners! And maybe I will sow some more broad beans next spring just to practise doing it right.
mike
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Josie, it was a discussion, not an argument.I think rootrainers could be a special case because of restricted space. It can't do any harm to follow JB's idea and plant them scar down as JB puts it, if you then see any coming out upside down then take remedial action.
I feel that what applies to boad beans does not neccessarily follow on runner beans as they are smaller and the scar is on the narrow side along with the emerging root. Don't start runner beans more than a month before you can plant them out or they will suffer a setback and get in a right tangle or as a punster would have it, 90 degrees (a rightangle!)
Did somebody say runnr beans were OT?
Allan
I feel that what applies to boad beans does not neccessarily follow on runner beans as they are smaller and the scar is on the narrow side along with the emerging root. Don't start runner beans more than a month before you can plant them out or they will suffer a setback and get in a right tangle or as a punster would have it, 90 degrees (a rightangle!)
Did somebody say runnr beans were OT?
Allan