Calabrese or Broccoli or Romanesco?

[cevenol jardin]

I am confused by the naming of these vars by seed companies, veg mags, veg sellers the lot. I came accross a piece by Mick Lavelle on the GYO website which makes the issue clear as mud for me.
"Calabrese, sometimes called Italian broccoli or green sprouting broccoli, is the subject of a great deal of confusion. Problems lie in the differences between it, and its close relative, broccoli. It isn’t helped by the fact green spearheads of calabrese are misleadingly called broccoli by supermarkets. The simplest difference is that calabrese normally has greenheaded spears, whereas broccoli has purple or white. For the gardener, sprouting broccoli overwinters and is eaten in early spring. It is also a cut-andcome- again crop producing several delectable sprigs. Calabrese, on the other hand, has one big head per crop on each plant and is harvested in summer. If you planted it earlier in the year, you should be harvesting it about now, although some of the hardier varieties will keep cropping will into winter. If the weather is mild, some of the hardier calabrese may overwinter, but it’s by no means guaranteed. Your best bet for a late crop is one of the new varieties known as ‘broccoletto’ which matures in less than a couple of months and the leaves of which can be used as a delicious cut-and-comeagain crop.
The word broccoli means ‘little sprouts’ in Italian, whereas calabrese refers to its origin in the Italian region of Calabria in the south-west of Italy. In contrast the Romanesco type is quite cauliflower like in its appearance, the head being made up of tightly packed yellowish-green conical florets arranged in an ascending spiral. It is an excellent choice for an autumn sowing producing heads right through the winter in mild years."
Any one got a clear distinction to make and has anyone tried sowing Romanesco as late as Autumn as he suggests ??- i am experimenting with Romanesco this year to find the best window for sowing in my climate and sowed them August 13 which i thought was pushing it quite a bit here in the South of France. They are slow growing and by late Oct they are still very small but could potentially produce a spring crop but no chance of a winter crop - we'll see.

[Colin_M]

has anyone tried sowing Romanesco as late as Autumn as he suggests

Yes, I got mine from Seeds of Italy and must have sown them about the same time as you in August (so late summer really). I started them in pots in the garden, only planting them out when they were well established (a ploy against clubroot).

They're currently around 18 inches high and look pretty healthy. I didn't see any flowering heads forming the last time I looked.

Colin

[cevenol jardin]

This will be interesting Collin we can see how our romanesco are doing either side of the drink. Yours sound in better shape than mine. Mine are still in the seed bed waiting to planted out hopefully this week its been too dry and windy to risk them the last 2-3 weeks and are still only about 20cm high (8 inches)

The article suggested sowing in Autumn which i take to mean from October onwards which seems to late to me.

P.S The Kashmiri chilli seeds you gave me have produced a decent harvest the only thing is i am not sure they are Kashmiri chilli - they are a lovely colour but there is almost no heat in them. Is that what the chillis were like that they came from? Anyway i enjoyed growing them I've got 2 plants in the polytunnel over 5ft high and am going to see if they make it through the winter in there to live another year. Its worked with other capsicums so hopefully.

[Johnboy]

Hi CJ,
I will endeavour to put you straight over Broccoli.

Calabrese
Prior to the hybridizers getting at Calabrese there were several small headed varieties on the market.
To name two open pollinated that are still around
Green Sprouting early August cropping and De Cicco which is considerably later cropping up to late November. Both give magnificent crops. These are the true Calabrese full of flavour. With the F1 hybrid varieties, much beloved by super markets, some will have a main head and if left after main head harvested will actually produce side shoots over an extended period. To my mind the hybridizers have bred every ounce of flavour out of the plant and gone for shelf life.

Purple Sprouting Broccoli
Purple sprouting now comes in Winter/Spring varieties and Early Summer/Late Autumn varieties.
The winter/spring varieties require vernalization to initiate the plant going up to head. The others obviously do not.

Winter/Spring Varieties
Rudolph January/February on. Red Spear and Red Arrow February/March
Early Purple March on. Cardinal Late March/May on. Late Sprouting April on. Claret F1 Late April until the beginning of June.

Summer/Autumn Varieties.
The main two are Spike and Bordeaux F1. These varieties can be grown in succession from a Late February sowing will harvest from around mid June on.
If you then sow monthly in succession you can have Broccoli right up until November. There are another couple of these Summer Varieties Galaxy and Summer Purple which I have not grown so really cannot comment.

White Flowering Sprouting Broccoli
You really are restricted to an Early Flowering and a Late Flowering variety. There are a couple of named varieties White Eye (Early) White Star (late)
Both these varieties are what they call reselected seeds and are very marginally superior to the bog standard ones.

Romanesco

Normal Romanesco the open pollinated seed is classified as a Broccoli but you will find it in Calabrese and sometimes under Cauliflower.
Beware the hybridizers have been at work again.
The bog standard Romanesco is a magnificent vegetable and I have it heard described as "Heaven on a Plate" it really is the tops for flavour.
I have only grown it to head up at this time late October but I am sure this can be extended. It is quite hardy.
I am not sure about the Romanesco F1 varieties as I have never been tempted to grow them.

I do hope this is of use to you and I feel sure that I have left a lot out but we may well be able to trim it as well as amend it to make a worthwhile document.
You may have realised that you can now grow Broccoli the entire year round now.
Sincerely,
JB.

[cevenol jardin]

Merci Bien JB

I'm best to stear clear of brassicas in the summer months as they really struggle against our bug population but by the time the cooler weather comes they can get away ok. Rudolf and the early purple sprouting work well here.

The strain of Romanesco i've been growing last 3 years came from the Organic Catalogue, billed as Broccoli Romanesco, but i'll be needing to buy new seed this year and was going to get more of the same as it is great stuff you could describe it as "Heaven on a Plate". Would that be the original stuff you mentioned? So far it has been a law into itself when it forms a head and never as early as the seed packet would suggest of Aug-Sept. Last year it was as late as March from an April sowing.

Re-classification - have i got this now - the stuff that puts out many sprouts is brocolli and the single head is Calabrese and Romanesco is a broccoli but looks and tastes more like a cauliflower ?

[Colin_M]

The Kashmiri chilli seeds you gave me have produced a decent harvest the only thing is - they are a lovely colour but there is almost no heat in them. Is that what the chillis were like that they came from?

I'm very jealous of anyone who's got a 5 foot high chilli bush - even if they aren't scorchers!

Anyway, the original (Waitrose) dried Kashmiri chillis aren't particularly hot (and as you say there is no guarantee of their provenance). Every now and then one has a slight bite, but what they do have is flavour. Our daughter Jenni generally adds them during cooking to flavour the finished dish rather than add heat. If yours taste nice, maybe that's the main thing and perhaps they're best used dried.

Whilst we've had precious little real summer in Bristol, several of my Chillis have been like that - plenty of green & red fruit, but quite mild. I obviously didn't give them a hard enough time

Of course, the ones you should really have planted were the Trinidad Seasoning Chillies. Ours have been fruiting for some time now and the first ones are just turning orange. Again, they aren't hot at all but taste superb with an aroma when diced that fills the whole kitchen - one of the few chillis that you'd use time and time again in a (Caribbean) salad!!
http://www.pbase.com/cmalsingh/image/40219904

Colin

[Colin_M]

My Romaseco are still in the seed bed waiting to planted out hopefully this week its been too dry and windy to risk them the last 2-3 weeks and are still only about 20cm high (8 inches)

Why not put them out under cover? I used fleece over mine, mainly as protection against the pigeons to start with. I'm sure this helped them along as it was then probably warm enough to get some growth in - yours might also benefit from this, even if you remove it when they're a little more established.

We're not the only ones doing this - have a look at Piglet's here: http://pigletsplots.blogspot.com/2007/10/better-late-than-never.html

The article suggested sowing in Autumn which i take to mean from October onwards which seems to late to me.

Agreed. You'd think that germination & growth would be on the slow side by then, unless they were mollycoddled, or started indoors first.

I'll let you know how mine get on. Because they're from Seeds Of Italy, there should be some spare if you want to try some yourself.


Colin

[cevenol jardin]

well impressed by piglets brassica seedlings. I'm just off to plant out some of my lesser specimens. Thanks for the tip i'll try them undercover and see what happens. May be too hot for them still as yet so i'll just put a few of each in.

The kashmiri that are 5ft were gown in a shaded part of the the tunnel - they are tall but they are skinny the ones outside are good sturdy things but only about 3ft. Re Kitchen use i've dried some and made a powder and that is fabulous stuff get the rich red colour and flavour. So perfect i'll just add powdered cayenne if and when i want a little more heat.

Up for trying the trinidad peppers next year. Thanks

[potager]

Maybe it's because it's december tomorrow, but my first thought was christmas trees, when I was playing with my camera, taking closeups of this romanesco: http://www.potager.dk/index.php?id=55&la=en

[cevenol jardin]

The romanesco I sowed last August are about 25cm high and forming loose curds of only about 7cm. Pitifull really compared to other years when the plants were nearing 5ft with huge tight curds. The plants were not set out until November (due to marauding pigs on the land) but previous years were set out May-July. I put the failure down to the late sowing but more so to the later planting - they may have done a little better if set out in September.
The Tuscan Kale i put in the tunnel while doing ok does not taste as good as it would have had it been grown outdoors and had a little frost to make it sweeter.
How did anyone else fair with their August sown romanesco or other winter brassicas?

[PLUMPUDDING]

I only grow the open pollinated, not f1 hybrid, romanesco and usually sow it in May outdoors. The first time I grew it the heads were very tender and did not stand frost, but I've grown some from a different source this year and some of them stood until the really severe frost this month. I did notice that they weren't quite as tender, but still had a good flavour

[Colin_M]

How did anyone else fair with their August sown romanesco or other winter brassicas?

Our Romanseco Broccoli was a dwarf variety and produced heads around 4-5cm wide. The heads had beautiful geometric swirls and a light green colour. It tasted good too. However I hoped to get more than one head per plant so I probably won't try this again. By comparison, our Autumn sown Sprouting Broccoli has tasted great and is still producing.

Our Cavolo Nero has done very well (now flowering, but also producing leaves). I now need to plant 3x as much this year!

Colin