Advice on Liming soil?

[Colin_M]

Following suggestions by others, I've been adding Lime to the soil directly around my Brassicas, to overcome clubroot. This seems to let me grow brassicas and I'm careful not to "broadcast" the lime any wider than 6" around the plant.

However, should I be careful what I grow in the soil after the Brassicas have been picked?

I understand some plants are "lime-hating". I've tried some soil PH testing kits and got inconclusive results, so wondered if there were any general principles about this (my plot's too small to leave any area unused for long....).


Colin

[Johnboy]

Hi Colin,
The question to be asked is does club root prevail on your site? I use manure every year for crops that will need it and I lime every fourth year. Don't ask me why every fourth year because there obviously was a reason but I simply cannot remember! I have always done it that way and whether it was passed on by my Grandfather who knows!
If club root is present on your site then the lime content should be kept quite high for anything in the brassica range, including Radishes and Wallflowers which many people seem to forget.
The top half of the local village has club root and by growing on in pots, even up to 1.5L , has helped immensely people who were in quite a dilemma.
By liming the planting hole with a dusting of lime has been, I feel, part and parcel of the gains that we have made. By the way when I go to help I always wear my steel capped boots and place my feet in polythene bags and wear protective disposable gloves.
Comical as I may look I have managed to help several gardeners without managing to bring club root home with me. (so far that is)
I do not think that the amount of lime used dusting the planting hole will that seriously affect the PH generally on the land because your brassicas should be in a rotation and therefore this will only be done about every four years and in my case Potatoes and Brassicas are only planted every eight year on the same patch. This is what happens when you have got too much available space. I only ever grow Early Potatoes (Maris Bard) as I have a free source of main crop.
To be quite honest Colin I do not know a vegetable that I have grown that is that much of a lime hater.
I somehow think that you may be worrying when there is no need to do so.
However it was a very good point to raise.
JB.

[Colin_M]

Thanks JB.

Like your neighbours, I've been raising my brassicas in pots & it's worked so much better this year. However whilst I'm careful to add a small quantity of lime to the soil in the pots, I don't measure it out properly.

I'd heard that some flowering plants are affected by lime (is it Azelaeas that need ericaceous compost?) - just wanted to make sure there weren't any veg like that. I just don't have enough room to let me rotate any more frequently than 2-3 years on my plot. Thus I expect the Ph will be a little higher in the areas where my brassicas have been.


Colin

[Johnboy]

Hi Colin,
You do not mention if you manage to use any FYM but if you do, one application would overcome the effects of the lime that you have used and 2/3 years break would have almost the same effect if you do not manage to acquire FYM. Trouble is that there are not to many farmyards in Bristol!
JB.

[Colin_M]

You do not mention if you manage to use any FYM....Trouble is that there are not to many farmyards in Bristol!

Yes, not many. I don't apply as much manure as I should, but our allotment gets a regular supply of horse stable hay/manure. This usually has much more hay than "solids" so I don't use it regularly.

However a neighbour has a pile of rotted horse manure next to his stable. He occaisionally lets me have access.

I assume FYM either balances the pH, or does something else to the lime? I heard that it was advisable not to apply both, since it could cause Nitrogen to be released/lost from the FYM? Sorry if I've got this muddled and guess that doing it in alternatve years would be less of a problem.

Colin

[Johnboy]

Hi Colin,
In order to seriously alter the PH of your plot you would have to use quite a high level overall of lime so the small quantity that you use is counteracted by any manure that will be slightly acidic and they have the tendency to level out the PH.
It is true that you should not use both Lime and Manure together for the reason you quote.
FYM is more nutritios but Horse Manure is a far better soil improver in my opinion.
JB.

[GIULIA]

I reckon a PH meter is much more reliable than those pesky kits, and you get years of use out of it. You can keep a regular check on things and it is a very worthwhile job. I was shocked to discover (early this Spring) that the rainwater in my butt was really quite acid - maybe we'd had some acid rain - but it meant I could beat a little hydrated lime into the watering can before I watered my brassicas, and check the level again before using it. I've since discovered, by checking regularly, that the PH of rainwater varies alarmingly over the course of a season and if you're using it to water seedlings and young plants its worth keeping an eye on.

[Johnboy]

Hi Giulia,
I have an idea that PH meters should not be used to test liquids as they do not read true for liquids.
Not knowing which meter you have I may well be far off the mark.
My PH meter is an expensive one and I have been looking for the original literature for some time now without luck but I know mine should not be used to test liquids.
I would be interested to know the PH of your water butt.
JB.

[Allan]

Surely it is the other way round,pH is the power of the hydrogen ion (expressed logarithmically) in a solution so can only be measured for liquids.
Allan

[Johnboy]

Hi Allan,
I am perfectly aware of what PH is but when the manufacturer of a piece of equipment say it should not be used in water then who am I, or you for that matter, to argue.
The trouble is I cannot find the all important instructions and I cannot remember who the manufacturer is. The name was on the meter with stickers which over the years have disappeared.
I am going to the Four Oaks Show tomorrow and I should be able to hunt out who the maker is. If not sort out some sort of proper answer.
Regards,
JB.

[Allan]

Enjoy the show but meanwhile you might like to go to the Rapitest pH meter instructions via Google as it says there "push the probe into wet soil and take the reading." Ours is a Rapitest.

If you want the full works, try this for size

http://www.coleparmer.co.uk/techinfo/te ... tle=Search

[Johnboy]

Hi Allan,
I have read the entire works and mine works simply by cleaning the probe and inserting into the soil.
Rapitest works with the aid of water and you have to take samples with mine you do not have to. This accounts for us getting at cross purposes.
This will be the last Four Oaks that I shall attend as now that I am fully retired I somehow don't see the merit and am just going tomorrow to say goodbye to some very old friends that I have made over the years. I will no doubt find Rapitest at the show or if not one of the other firms and get the gen from them.
Regards,
JB.