filling a new raised bed....total newbie

[Midnight Tboy]

Hey there all,

ok so here's the deal....I'm useless

Computers are and have always been my thing, and have only just recently started getting the gardening bug with loving the idea of growing our own veg, aswell as for our young son to learn with and my lady to do the hard graft when I put the bad back excuse on

Anyways, I've got 10 zillion and 1 questions that will no doubt come up over the next few weeks/months as I go through my steep learning curve, and have bought a few books on the matter (the hessayon expert series and Grow Your Own Veg by carol kline). But for now theres 1 main question...and probably a very daft question

In my back garden, against the back corner I have knocked up (with my bad diy skills and lack of proper equipment ) a raised bed plot, using some old fence wood from my parents house that they had after doing an extension. A main square approx 1.5m x 1.5m, and 2 borders around the corner of approx 1.5m x 60cm deep.

The bed is approx 6inches from the ground, being one width of the fence wood. I'm debating right now whether to go around and make it 2 pieces height, so ie about 12" (would you recommend that? thats not my question btw )

Right.....now its come to filling it....and I can't seem to find the exact info in the books on exactly what I should be filling it with.

We've dug over the soil in it and removed weeds etc, (it used to be grass), so naturally the height of the turned over and mixed soil is a little bit higher than normal because it hasnt been flattened.

Now should we fill it all with compost, or all with soil except a small layer of compost? Is too much compost a bad thing?

I'm presuming that our best option is to basically buy nothing but compost, as its not too deep, then dig it thoroughly in with the existing soil to mix it all up thoroughly but am wanting to be sure as I read something somewhere (in reference to filling land for grass patches tho), that should use topsoil as compost will obviously go after a while leaving holes in the ground?

And obviously I dont want to have a raised bed to find that its gradually sinking

sorry for such a stupid question, but I really am a total noob at this, trying to expand my horizons, and I'm reluctant to get this thing filled and started until I know what to buy. I was going to buy the stuff from B&Q or homebase or somewhere, as I looked for stuff online, topsoil in particular, but could only really see it bought by the half tonne+ which sounds like a huge amount (and very expensive delivered). I presume that b&q sell topsoil too or whatever mix I should need?

many thanks,
Tuck

[Malk]

Tuck, just briefly because I'm sure there's someone with more experience to help you. I'd just pick up some bags of compost (I prefer peat-free) from B&Q or whatever and add them to what you've already got and mix them in. They might have bags of top soil as well. You might also want to add a bit of sand if the soil has a lot of clay.

I think it's too late to add manure, unless you've got access to the well-rotted stuff.

But wait until the real experts come on with their advice.

[Midnight Tboy]

thanks for reassuring me Malk

I'll whizz to b&q either shortly or tomorrow morning and get maybe a mix of both topsoil and compost if they do have it.

I believe our soil does have a lot of clay so I might pinch some spare sand from our sons sandpit - not too much, but I'm sure just a little wont go amiss.

I'd presume the reason you add the sand to in effect break up the clay a bit so it doesnt clump together as much.

cheers,
Tuck

[Malk]

I wouldn't use play sand. I think it's the wrong kind. I think it's sharp sand you need, but I'd ask at B&Q. Sand or grit will make it break up easier. You want the soil to stick together in your hand, but not feel like you can make a bowl out of it, ie clay.

Honestly, I'm a newbie as well (well a plot for 4 years). I'd wait and see what the others have to say, just in case they have better advice.

[Midnight Tboy]

hiya Malk, I just this minute got back from tesco, where I was told the compost was currently on sale at £1 per 20litre bag, so quite a good price, and smaller bags for me to kart around . Its not peat free however sadly (not that I know much of the difference, but I presume that it doesnt have as much goodness in it). I got 14bags of it for now, as have no idea how much I'll need in total, will see how it goes later today/tomorrow. I couldnt see any topsoil at tesco tho, but was pushed for time anyways as my nipper was getting cranky for tea, and so was I

My other half, the third reich, however reminded me that my dad at his home has a load of building sand leftover, so I'll be pinching some of that stuff. That should be gritty enough for the task

[alan refail]

Don't use building sand, unless you want to make cement

Alan

[Midnight Tboy]

doh

glad I read this in advance

[Johnboy]

Hi Tuck,
As Alan says do not use building sand for horticultural purposes use Sharp Sand which is also called Concreting Sand by some.
SS allows drainage and if as you say you have a fairly clay soil SS will help you make the clay friable. It will also help you growing things like Carrots and Parsnips.
JB.

[oldherbaceous]

Evening Tuck, as sands go they can be a trifle confusing.

These are in order of courseness starting with the finest first. And i will also include some of the names for each sand, and some uses.

Silver sand or play sand, used for brushing in block paving joints, or play pits.

Building sand, brick laying sand or soft sand, used mainly for brick laying.

Plasterng sand used for plastering base coat or rendering.

Concreting sand, screed sand or sharp sand, used for screeding floors up to about 75mm.
This is the sort you need to get, if you have a Wickes near you, it's about a £1.oo a bag.

Then there is ballast, this is shingle and concreting sand mixed and used for concrete.

[Compo]

Hi Tuck

Don't panic you will get it right, adding any form of compost to your clay is fine, the sharp sand will help but is not essential.

I was a bit worried that you said fence wood? you dont mean feather edge board do you? This will burst open if you use it, but I hope you mean something like 6x1 inch timber which is probably acceptable.

Good luck and plant little and often in such a small space and you should get something.

Compo

[Midnight Tboy]

heya all, and thanks for the responses.

I'll have to quiz my parents what the actual sand is they have at their house, but presumably it'll be the wrong type anyway. Not to worry I guess, as tho the soil is prob quite claylike, its far from being claggy enough to recreate the scene from Ghost, so I shant worry about putting any in otherwise.

You had me worried for a minute there Compo, as I didnt have a clue what feather edge board actually is, but a quick google, and nope its definately not that stuff, and yes its some old timber approx 6x1 give or take. It had been painted red (well still is), from where its been part of my parents big house main fence before their extension. Its a bit dry and split a little in places where time has taken its toll, but it should hold out (I hope ). I'm a bit worried about where I read somewhere earlier today that yo ushould not use treated wood however as it could seep into the plants I dont know if those fence posts would have - but if it has I hope it wouldnt have much effect and have been long ago.

I'd consider investing in a lot more on this project, but I rent privately so dont want to rip the place to pieces too much, on top of spending loads on something I cant take away with me if/when do move

It's dug out and pushed into place, I just now need to put stakes into the corners deep into the ground to secure it from moving. Before I do that though, I need to decide whether to make it 2 plank widths tall instead of 1 so it would be 12" tall.

Of the 14x20ltr bags I do have, it does look like I'm going to need a lot lot more to fill up the raised beds maybe it'll thicken out when it gets mixed in with all the overturned soil etc. Its not cheap this mud business is it comes to something when I cringe at the thought of buying mud Mainly cos moneys a bit tight these last couple of months so I dont like spending if dont have to.

Now its time for me to read up and decide if its worthwhile bothering getting a wormery. I do have a regular compost bin which we started mid last year, tho nothing majorly usable has come out yet, and like the idea of getting liquid feed from the wormery instead of buying it all the time, but wonder if its just not going to be worth the extra time and maintenance adding that just yet, on top of the extra cost.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dendrobaena-96ltr ... dZViewItem

Those ones ^ do seem quite reasonably priced however.

Thanks again for the help, I'll be back to haunt you all tomorrow

Tuck

[Compo]

There are plenty of back topics on allotment and garden raised beds, there are alternatives if you dont want to spend much. My y
allotment raised beds have been achieved by actually sinking the paths around the bed (digging out a shallow trench two foot wide and six inches deep, then throwing this earth on top of the raised bed. If you also add compost or anything organic to this, you will have a nice height and possibly the option of having twelve inches high rather than six inches if you have lots of this timber you can easily lay some on the paths to keep it weed free and to keep it cleaner under foot.

Hope you are soon able to sow and get growing

Compo

[dewwex]

you asked whether you should make beds 12" high. For plant growing needs 6" is fine. idealy speaking 9" would be option i go for. Its only root crops like carrots and parsnips, and leeks etc where the extra inchs are of benifit. Just avoid trying to grow long varitys!

Whats more important is that to turn over or fork over the intial ground. before you add your bed ingredients. this allows better drainage. And existing soil depth can be used by roots of plants.

Ideally speaking you would be better to have mostely top soil in bed, say final covering of compost on top, which you would turn and mix with top soil underneath.

Peat free compost verses peat composts really is only an environmental ethical question. though soil based or soil don't dry out as quick. soil holds onto water better than compost. indeed when i putting say tomatoe in tubs to grow. i add 30% top soil for that reason to normal peat potting compost.

unfortunatly topsoil works out very expensive. i did a 12 ft x 3.5 ft (9"bed) for someone recently. i live in ireland. i got top soil from man selling by the ton. cost 100 euro. the 100 euro really is only the cost for him to do the job of collecting and delivering. (top soil is basically a free material, its just the cost of delivering it)We didn't need a ton, so i got him just to empty enough for what i need.he took away the rest.paid him the 100 euro.

I would recommend doing a volume (litre)calculation of how much soil you need. because if i was to go and get topsoil from a garden centre in bags. i think the cost would have been close to 300 euro.

topsoil from garden centres is a very expensive option.

You defo should do some maths on the subject.!!

[Midnight Tboy]

hi there,

many thanks for the indepth responses.

In the end I did buy a load of composts and dug it in thoroughly with the main soil from the garden.

Initially I bought a load of peat based stuff from tesco at £1 for 20litres. Bought about 14of them packs (had to push 2 trolleys about - had groceries to buy too - thank god the other half was there )

All of that went in and much more was needed, so after another town shopping trip a couple of days after, popped to B&Q. I was just going to get more regular peat based compost, but I saw they sold peat free compost as vegetable grow bags for what was meant to be 5.1p per litre. That seemed a lot cheaper than what most other peat free alternatives there were. I figured that the 'grow bag' compost should be no different than a regular bag of compost so bought a few of them, which are now in the garden, and its more or less filled up nicely Also bought a bag of sharp sand to help break it up a bit, and dug it all in thoroughly.

Maybe another bag or 2 adding wont go amiss but no rush for that.

Typical however, the house directly opposite mine has just put a skip outside and its filled with a load of grassy mud where they're doing some work or other in the back!!!! Sheesh, I'm guessing that would be perfect to use as topsoil (tho might be too much of a pain seperating the grass out) I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow and have a quick chat with the fella about possibly pinching some of it might look daft top them tho

One thing that concerns me tho, when emptying one of the compost bags, there was some sort of beetle in it, a green coloured one about 1cm long that my other half found. I took it out straight away and watched it in a bucket (was fascinating for my young son needless to say). Never seen a beetle that colour before, was a bit worried it may be a bad pest. Had a good rake through the compost/soil but couldnt see any other instances. Please reassure me that I havent just let loose a massive veg eating beetle infestation!!!!

[Compo]

Hi again Tuck

The grassy soil would be great if you just stacked it somewhere for six months or so, the grass will rot and you will find that you have a nice stack of loamy soil hopefully quite stone free to use as you wish. Alternately if you build another bed, you could dig out six inches or so of top soil and put the 'sods' (clumps of grass and earth) in the hole and put the top soil you have taken out on top. 6-9 inches down the grass will rot and not grow through.

Compo