Plot security?

[Weed]

I would appreciate your views/experiences on the issue of allotment site security.

Our site is Council run and although we have some lovely new gates to the entrance to the site..we cannot seem to get the locks to stay put. They appear to damage very easily and are then removed for weeks on end.
One side of the site is very insecure the fence,such as it was, having been removed and replaced with wooden posts
Consequently we have an almost open house.

My question is....does the Council have an obligation to ensure that we have a secure site?

[Chantal]

None of the Council sites in Rugby are secure. I think it's up to the individual authority and what's in any agreement you have with them.

[lizzie]

My understanding is that if it is council owned then they have an obligation to have the site secured. The site is also covered by the DDA and all other council rules, including discrimination etc. However, in practice it is very different.

Our site is council run but we have had to pay £10 extra to buy in razor wire and additional wire fencing cos the council won't pay for it. Our site has been plagued for months. I've lost count of how many times we've been broken into over the last 3 months. I think it's in the region of 40 times. Sheds and greenhoused are burned down, wanton destruction of flowers and veg. It's been a nightmare.

Check with the council. They have an extremely large book of allotment rules and regulations. Get yourself a copy and start reading. If they won't part with it (argue the toss cos it's public information) then the local library should have one.

Hope this helps.

[peter]

My site had problems, not as bad as Lizzies though.

Cure I badgered the council and they bought me the postcrete, posts, wire and chainlink. I errected a new west fence, about 100 yards.

Next time I went to the council I did not have to badger and I got 1/3rd of the north fence, plus the little bit of the east from the gate. Also some hedging. That went up and as they also provided, at my emphatic request, a post hole auger (corkscrew), it went up alot quicker with less concrete.

This time I have the remaining 2/3rds of the north fence and am progressing setadily. The replacement hedging, don't talk to me a bout council strimming contractors, is heeled in at the moment.

So what am I advising.
1/. The council is obliged to make reasonable efforts to make your site secure. A post and rail fence is not a reasonable effort in an urban environment, but may be OK in a small village. Six foot chainlink is probably the costeffective compromise, but the six inch apart vertical six foot posts type used to secure railway lines and electricity substations is best.

2/. If you can do it meet them halfway, but you MUST keep up your end of the deal. If they provide the materials and some specialised tools (auger is over £60) or rental of powered auger, then you DO put up the fence. Commitment is needed.

3/. Find out who holds the levers or power and controls the budget. Talk nicely, firmly and persistently to them. Write to them as well as talk. If they do not reply, persist.
If they don't do anything, find a fencing supply firm and cost the material yourself, then put in your proposal, with costs (don't forget they can get the VAT back) stating clearly how many of you will pitch in and do the expensive bit, the labour. If it looks too much break it into sections, worst first, just leave on the end, "When this is completed we would like to do the next section, in the same manner and at a simlilar cost.".

4/. Never loose your rag, especially not in writing, humourous sarcasm is OK but only in very limited amounts. "The fence not being deterrent to a toddler.". Just keep on persisting politely.

[Chantal]

That could explain the situation in Rugby; little vandalism so far so no security (basic fencing) but in the circumstances "reasonable". Interesting.

Our site is self managed so we get nothing in the way of security from them and we can't afford to do it outselves. However, apart from the great leek heist a few months ago we've had no problems.

[PAULW]

Our lottie has a chainlink fence put up by the council which was then reinforced by the members planting hawthorn whips along the length of it, maybe you could do a deal with the council to buy or get them to supply and have a lottie work in and get your members to plant a hedge in years to come it will get thicker and the thorns will make the vandals think twice about climbing in.

[Weed]

Thank you all for your comments they have been most useful in pointing me in another directions.

We were approached by the Council a couple of years ago to go self-managed but no one (other than me) was interested.... they all seem to think that the Council should do everything for them.

Chantal... my cousins' site in Leicester is self-managed and they have managed to get in excess of £130,000 (one hundred and thirty thousand pounds) to upgrade their site...what they have achieved is outstanding.

My lot are so apathetic it hurts.

[Tigger]

I'm sure there's a national allotment site which confirms rights and responsibilities. It might be worth 'Googling' that.

There are a number of 'Allotment Celebrities' worth contacting, either chefs or gardeners, who are influential. I know of a few, if anyone wants their contacts.

[Linda]

It all depends on the lease/rental agreement you have with the landlord - there is no law that says allotment sites have to be secure.

We are self managed and inthe case of allotments in our district, our lease agreement states we have to 'provide and maintain a boundary fence' and 'to pay all existing and future outgoings in respect of the allotment'.

In other words, they devolve all responsibility and costs to the association, whilst charging us a 'commercial' rent. Thanks to setting up a district association year before last, the landlord now puts about half the rent paid into a fund to which we can apply for grants. this is a big step inthe right direction, but hardly the answer.

Of course we could refuse the terms and not sign the lease - but thenthey would chuck us off the site!

Love nd compost
linda

[Chantal]

Weed, one simple question. How?

[Weed]

Chantal

They have a guy who spends a lot of his time chasing money and boy is he successful.

You are not far away from Leicester if you get the chance go to the Stokes Road Allotments off the Groby Road and see for yourself.

They have a purpose built community 'hut' ...hardly... a unit with large kitchen, full central heating etc.
Now they have this they run free courses for which they attract more money. They have a disabled garden plus have plots set aside for the local school... it goes on

If I can find them I will dig out (pardon the pun)some photographs I took and send them on to you via PM... if I can do that... I do warn you it will make you sick, hence my frustration at our pathetic bunch.

[Shallot Man]

May I suggest you have a whip round, go to a good locksmith and get a decent padlock , cost approx £40,get him to fix a good length of chain to the padlock, secure to gate, have the locksmith make as many copies of the key to the no: of plot holders, secure chain to gate, result lock never goes missing. Shallot Man

[lizzie]

If the vandals are anything like the little *&$$"@@ that we have, they simply cut through the lock with bolt cutters. They also climb over the fences and one of the lot always seems to have a key and simply walk through the locked and padlocked gates at will.

You can make it as secure as you you're able, but they still get in. We now have a fence in the region of 11ft high topped off with razor wire. The bottom of the fences have also been re-enforced cos they were jemmying them open with a crow bar. Hopefully, this should stop them for a while.

[Chantal]

Thanks Weed but it sounds like a pretty big site. Ours is only 1.5 acres including the footpaths and if we did anything like that we'd have no room for the actual allotments.

It sounds great though

[Weed]

Chantal

fifty plots.... Yes fifty plots...that is half the size of mine...you can see why it hurts now