Seed Catalogues - what they don't tell us - a little moan.

[Colin Miles]

I always get very frustrated when looking through seed catalogues due to the lack of information about all the different varieties, especially any comparative information. Now that computers make it so much easier to change copy it is getting better, but very slowly. It is good, for instance, to see some tables which show when varieties are ready - eg with Sprouts. But so much the information reminds me of estate agents blurbs.

What particularly annoys me, and maybe this is getting better, is when a description is left in untouched for year after year. So you get a variety described as the earliest or heaviest cropper when for many years it has been usurped by newer varieties. And so often 'important' information is left out. When I first grew the Swift Potato the information regarding the fact that it is so compact wasn't given. And I remember looking at the new cabbage Hispi wondering when it was going to grow big enough to eat.

Obviously the growth of different varieties will vary depending on soil, climate, etc., and you can get all sorts of aberrations in growth patters, but generally one variety will be earlier than another, another will always produced a bigger crop, etc., and I am sure that it would be possible to offer this comparative information in an easily digestible form, namely MORE TABLES.

For example, with potatoes, order/earliness of cropping for 1st earlies. And for all varieties growth habit both above and below ground - tall, medium or short haulm and whether the potatoes are produced on short or long stolons - planting distances and yield in a form which takes account of this. Then you have slug, blight resistance, etc., much of which is given by Alan Romans in his booklet.

With tomatoes again their relative earliness, their cropping period, whether they are short-jointed or long, whether they will ripen if the temperature drops below 60F - Moneymaker doesn't!

And the same kind of thing applies to many other vegetables. Obviously with printed catalogues the companies will not want to increase costs by extra printing, but on-line they have no such excuse.

Or am I being too idealistic?

Ps. I wish they wouldn't describe old varieties which they have just reintroduced to their catalogue as NEW, or claim exclusivity when it isn't true - last years claim left in?

[Allan]

I endorse your grouses but find a way round much of it by compiling my own notes on cultivars which are the best information on all sources.I try to note sowing, planting, harvesting dates and any special properties. Extra information is quite often available on the 'net.
The most glaring disinformation that I have come across lately was re. Gardeners Delight tomato, described as bush/determinate by some, even semi-determinate by others.Whatever it is, surely there must be a general concensus.
Allan

[Colin Miles]

Yes Allan, like you I compile my notes and search out information on the net. But it's all so bitty. With potatoes one source will give you the info on 1 variety telling you that such and such a variety produces it's potatoes in a big bunch under the plant, but give no such information on others which do a similar thing. And it's especially bad when it comes to vegetables I haven't previously grown as I have nothing to assess the information on, or it's quality - none of the companies are exactly consistent. Of course, I can fully understand how this situation has arisen, but it would be nice to think that, now that we have the technology, someone somewhere could make use of it, especially now that more and more 'new' varieties are being introduced.

[Loz]

Hi Guys, just to add my two penn'th, having worked for a couple of the major seed suppliers, I know that the guys in the marketing departments who produce the catalogues are not gardeners and rely on info from books, or 'borrowed' from other catalogues. Often descriptions are copied from one season to he next, so any errors are just carried forward. I think making your own notes has to be the way forward, but it would help those new to gardening, or those of us trying new varieties, if some of the seed companies would actually employ gardeners, not financial cost saving wizards.

Loz

[Alison]

How about KG having a quite separate "KG Veg Varieties Information" section, where members can put in their own descriptions of veg? KG could set up the headings of the various veg in alphabetical order, perhaps with a sketchy preliminary description of each veg; and we could put in our own descriptions of how we have found the variety turns out, and add extra varieties and it would be very easy to look up what veg you wanted. Perhaps we might need an individual 30-word limit?!
We could even say if we had seeds available for sale.
Alison.

[Allan]

It is yet another of those schemes which needs a seperate'reference' section which the present setup doesn't support. I have suggested something on these lines before the 'new look' came in a year ago but nothing was done. Even going to an existing authority such as RHS doesn't always give the right answers. One problem is who decides what is the right description, there are those that still think that for instance 'Moneymaker' is the ultimate tomato, even outdoors whereas when I started serious growing I came across a John Innes publication of their trials and Moneymaker was found to be the latest ripener of all and economically useless unless you want loads of green tomatoes at the end of the season, but because it is still asked for it still appears in the catalogues which means people think it is good to grow etc.and the sequence is self-perpetuating.It takes a brave seedmerchant to break the sequence.
Allan

[Colin Miles]

Possibly the answer is to setup a web site, or pages within a web site where information about varieties could be displayed which isn't found elsewhere. Maybe KG could do this?

As for Moneymaker, I totally agree Alan. I remember a few years ago on the Allotment in Hemel looking at various varieties of tomatoes. The true outdoor bush ones like GD were ripening quite happily in September but Moneymaker, besides being very late, was sitting there as green as ever because the temperature was below 60F. Maybe it does work in the greenhouse, but it is certainly not an outdoor variety. I always think it is the name that sells it.

[Mr Potato Head]

Well, just to prove that I do listen to you lot occasionally, I'm proposing that we dedicate a section of the forum to this very matter. Please take a look at this post under the 'Suttons seed trials' section, and reply to it.

[cevenol jardin]

A very interesting idea i'd be keen on, i too have been developing detailed notes on all edible varieties i have grown for the same reasons; catalogue discrepencies and lack of extended season cropping info etc. I have been thinking of putting my data on our website and have been looking into how best to do that.
Having read the potato head suggestion however, I am not sure the forum format would work as a means to collect data on varieties on a practucal/technical level. As users would have to scroll through lots of postings to piece together the info and people may stray from the TOPIC/VARIETY. What might work is a wiki format -a type of Web site that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit and change some available content. This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for collaborative authoring. - an example of which is the brilliant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

what do you think?

[Allan]

I just tried tomato on Wikipedia and got this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tomato_cultivars
There is a lot such as we are talking about. Perhaps before we do a DIY job on the forum we should learn to use what already exists.e.g. list the varieties then give links to descriptions on the web.
There is the facility to add details to Wikipedia i.e. put our own data inand thus add to the common good.
Allan

[LynneA]

I've just dedicated over two months to a college coursework project, working out a cropping plan for year round harvesting. Had to name cultivars used, why and the sowing / cropping dates.

As I'm a lousy artist, decided to do this in table form, and have now expanded it to use on our allotments (three times the space of the college project).

I've added extra columns - sources and a blank box for comments.

Will seehow much it helps at the end of the season.

[Allan]

Yahoo won't accept the link. Please check
Allan

[Chantal]

Stick another "t" in little and it works