Wolseley Titan Re-Assembly problem
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Roger Williams
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Could someone kindly guide me with refitting the carburettor/gear linkage on my Wolseley Titan tiller type 714394, please. I bought the machine as a non-runner last year & have restored compression (new ex valve), got a spark (new ignition module) & have re-assembled everything else, but cannot remember how to fit the various linkages between engine & tank support leg. The engine is a B-S 5 HP unit type 130202 with a small pivot at the rear which is coupled into the carb control mechanism …… somehow!
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Clive.
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Hello Roger,
I'm fairly sure I could puzzle it out if it was in front of me....but there are/were variations.
If you have a look on the Briggs and Stratton website it should be possible to download a parts diagram to suit your engine. For this you will need the second set of numbers from the cowling tinwork as well as your Model No. 130202.
The drawings may well show several types of linkage as used for the same engine block in relation to different applications but amongst these you may be able to deciper those that apply to your Type number. http://www.briggsandstratton.com/displa ... ocID=78498
It may also be worth putting the model number into the operators manual search option as well....these refer to engine operation rather than being a workshop repair manual...but sometimes a glimpse of the linkages are shown within diagrams in the owners manual.
In its basic form I seem to recall a short link about an inch long that goes from the carb throttle spindle to a "bell crank" (this link may well have a spring over it that hooks in along with the link at its ends to take up play)...from the other end of this bell crank a long link may go down to connect to the governor arm.(this too may have a spring over it to take up slack play)...
Mounted on the back of the tank leg may be another bell crank to which the throttle cable may be connected (or even another link to which the cable is attached) This crank arm I think will have a short stubby spring which attaches to the governor arm..this spring will be the governor spring used to set engine speed/power relative to the position of the handlebar throttle...clear as mud
Further variations may see another link operate the choke for starting at the top end of throttle cable travel although a lot had either a pull out or later an up and over choke lever..later still an auxillary choke lever mounted like a slider on a side plate.
Hope some of the above may help...??? Do bear in mind that it is 15 years since I have worked on one.
And make sure that you have an operable means of stopping the beast before you attempt a start..just in case things are back to front and the revs build wildly, etc..!!
Do not be frightened to consult a local service agent if you cannot puzzle it all out..rather than risk damage to engine or yourself..
All the best,
Clive.
I'm fairly sure I could puzzle it out if it was in front of me....but there are/were variations.
If you have a look on the Briggs and Stratton website it should be possible to download a parts diagram to suit your engine. For this you will need the second set of numbers from the cowling tinwork as well as your Model No. 130202.
The drawings may well show several types of linkage as used for the same engine block in relation to different applications but amongst these you may be able to deciper those that apply to your Type number. http://www.briggsandstratton.com/displa ... ocID=78498
It may also be worth putting the model number into the operators manual search option as well....these refer to engine operation rather than being a workshop repair manual...but sometimes a glimpse of the linkages are shown within diagrams in the owners manual.
In its basic form I seem to recall a short link about an inch long that goes from the carb throttle spindle to a "bell crank" (this link may well have a spring over it that hooks in along with the link at its ends to take up play)...from the other end of this bell crank a long link may go down to connect to the governor arm.(this too may have a spring over it to take up slack play)...
Mounted on the back of the tank leg may be another bell crank to which the throttle cable may be connected (or even another link to which the cable is attached) This crank arm I think will have a short stubby spring which attaches to the governor arm..this spring will be the governor spring used to set engine speed/power relative to the position of the handlebar throttle...clear as mud
Further variations may see another link operate the choke for starting at the top end of throttle cable travel although a lot had either a pull out or later an up and over choke lever..later still an auxillary choke lever mounted like a slider on a side plate.
Hope some of the above may help...???
Do bear in mind that it is 15 years since I have worked on one.
And make sure that you have an operable means of stopping the beast before you attempt a start..just in case things are back to front and the revs build wildly, etc..!!
Do not be frightened to consult a local service agent if you cannot puzzle it all out..rather than risk damage to engine or yourself..
All the best,
Clive.
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Roger Williams
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Thanks Clive - I've downloaded the B-S Parts List which will be very helpful over the years. I do recognise several of the links shown on pages 2 & 4 but seem to be parts short ...... so am wondering if it was correctly assembled when purchased! Thus I think a visit to my local agent is required, but thanks for your help & thoughts
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Clive.
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Hello Roger,
In its basic form there may be only two link rods(with thin wire springs fitted over the rods)..
One link vertically from the governor arm (lever) to the bell crank on carb'.??...then the short link from the bell crank on the carb side to the carb' spindle top plate...and then one short stubby governor spring. This will be if the throttle cable attaches to a clamp on the tank leg.
Another vertical link may be fitted if the throttle cable is routed up the back of the tank leg to above a plate attached, I think, via a fitting on a head bolt.
Some link rods shown on the diagrams may be be attributed to specific Type numbers??...so a study of the parts drawings may eliminate some and hopefully give a clue to those required for your Type number.??
A bit of reading and studying over Christmas..
All the best,
Clive.
edited; having noted my error
In its basic form there may be only two link rods(with thin wire springs fitted over the rods)..
One link vertically from the governor arm (lever) to the bell crank on carb'.??...then the short link from the bell crank on the carb side to the carb' spindle top plate...and then one short stubby governor spring. This will be if the throttle cable attaches to a clamp on the tank leg.
Another vertical link may be fitted if the throttle cable is routed up the back of the tank leg to above a plate attached, I think, via a fitting on a head bolt.
Some link rods shown on the diagrams may be be attributed to specific Type numbers??...so a study of the parts drawings may eliminate some and hopefully give a clue to those required for your Type number.??
A bit of reading and studying over Christmas..
All the best,
Clive.
edited; having noted my error
Last edited by Clive. on Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hello Rodger
As you quote 714394 (this is a patent number) I assume you have an early Titan without a reverse gear in the chaincase. The allotment.org.uk free download of the 1976 Major instruction book has a decent drawing of the carb end of the linkages for the 5hp engine, or you could buy a reprint of the Titan book from me (plug, plug), which has the same picture. Very early Titans had an extra link to the choke which is better left off as it is a pig to set right and it is just as easy to use the choke directly on the carb. As Clive describes, the bottom end of the governor linkage is complex, so I will try to send a photo with this answer. The spring fits between the lever fastened to the tank bracket and the governor lever. If the clamp on the governor lever has been loosened it must be reset by turning the rod sticking out of the crankcase fully clockwise and pulling the throttle butterfly wide open. The clamp holding the lever to the governor rod is then tightened.
Hope this helps.
Richard
As you quote 714394 (this is a patent number) I assume you have an early Titan without a reverse gear in the chaincase. The allotment.org.uk free download of the 1976 Major instruction book has a decent drawing of the carb end of the linkages for the 5hp engine, or you could buy a reprint of the Titan book from me (plug, plug), which has the same picture. Very early Titans had an extra link to the choke which is better left off as it is a pig to set right and it is just as easy to use the choke directly on the carb. As Clive describes, the bottom end of the governor linkage is complex, so I will try to send a photo with this answer. The spring fits between the lever fastened to the tank bracket and the governor lever. If the clamp on the governor lever has been loosened it must be reset by turning the rod sticking out of the crankcase fully clockwise and pulling the throttle butterfly wide open. The clamp holding the lever to the governor rod is then tightened.
Hope this helps.
Richard
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Roger Williams
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Richard - Wonderful picture,thanks, which I'll take over to the machine as soon as I've downloaded the drawing you kindly recommended. However I'm pretty sure from the warmth of the study that I only have one link-rod (pic shows two, I think) which might be why I'm having so much difficulty. Thank you both (Clive & Richard)
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Clive.
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Hello Roger,
I seem to think that the thicker vertical link rod on Richards photo may not be fitted on all engines.??..if the throttle cable attaches directly to the bell crank on the tank leg with its outer cable clamped to the tank leg and if the choke for starting is operated manually.
The link from governor arm to carb' bell crank will still be as shown.
All the best,
Clive.
I seem to think that the thicker vertical link rod on Richards photo may not be fitted on all engines.??..if the throttle cable attaches directly to the bell crank on the tank leg with its outer cable clamped to the tank leg and if the choke for starting is operated manually.
The link from governor arm to carb' bell crank will still be as shown.
All the best,
Clive.
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Roger Williams
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Thanks guys! Think I'm making progress now because Clive was quite right ..... in my case the the bowden (?) cable indeed operated the bellcrank directly & i do indeed have a manual choke. So I've fitted the rod with its spring outer between the carb's bellcrank & the bellcrank on the tank leg! I now need to fit the govener lever on the rear of the engine. I've noted Richard's advise about turning the protruding rod fully clockwise but am not sure where the orientation of the lever should then be ..... the pic shows about 4 or 5 O'clock. Sorry, but more advice GREATLY apprecated!
Thanks & Regards, roger
Thanks & Regards, roger
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Clive.
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So I've fitted the rod with its spring outer between the carb's bellcrank & the bellcrank on the tank leg!
Hello Roger,
I am very concerned by the above from your last posting.
The link rod that attaches to the carb bell crank should come from the governor arm (as shown on Richards photo) and not as you describe.!!
DO NOT RUN the engine with the link as you have described as it would be possible for the engine to be opened up to dangerous speeds manually...I feel that as I read it you have totally by passed the governing.
I feel this could seriously end in tears with potential risk of damage to the good work you have previuosly carried out...and further...risk of injury to yourself.!!
I return to the last line of my original post....
Do not be frightened to consult a local service agent if you cannot puzzle it all out..rather than risk damage to engine or yourself..
Clive.
Last edited by Clive. on Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Clive.
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Hello Roger,
To run through the set up again..;
The throttle cable will attach to and move the bell crank on the tank leg.
A short stubby spring will hook from bell crank on the tank leg to the governor arm.
The long thin rod link (with a spring over it) will link governor arm to carb bell crank.
A short thin rod link will join carb bell crank to the carb spindle top plate.
If the governor arm has been removed from its spindle that protrudes from the back of thee engine then it will need to be re-set as per Richards instruction. This should be done once all links and springs are correctly back in place. This being set correctly is imperative to correct engine speed management and thus to power output.
I will try to describe how the carb/governor linkages work in engine operation....
As you set the handlebar throttle to Fast position you will be tensioning the governor spring and thus opening up carb spindle/throttle disc. As the engine revs increase the in sump governor counteracts the tension on the governor spring to equilibrium this closes the carb spindle/throttle disc and settles the engine revs to the desired speed as set. As a load is placed on the engine by the rotavator working the engine revs would tend to start to fall..this lessens the governors pull and the spring pulls the carb throttle disc open a bit more increasing the revs back to the desired setting. In reality this should all happen constantly....with the governor versus spring maintaining a constant speed relative to any load applied on the engine.
For lower speeds the operation is such that the governor spring is at a lower tension allowing for the in sump governor to more easily shut the carb butterfly disc resulting in the maintainance of a lower governed engine speed.
At tickover there may be little or no tension on the spring...so the governor will maintain the engine at tickover. In reality on some engines B&S have designed it so as the spring physically rests against the governor arm maintaining things in the tickover position.
The subject is quite difficult to describe...and I hope the above helps...but again urge you to consult a local service agent if the set up remains puzzling rather than take any risks.
All the best,
Clive.
To run through the set up again..;
The throttle cable will attach to and move the bell crank on the tank leg.
A short stubby spring will hook from bell crank on the tank leg to the governor arm.
The long thin rod link (with a spring over it) will link governor arm to carb bell crank.
A short thin rod link will join carb bell crank to the carb spindle top plate.
If the governor arm has been removed from its spindle that protrudes from the back of thee engine then it will need to be re-set as per Richards instruction. This should be done once all links and springs are correctly back in place. This being set correctly is imperative to correct engine speed management and thus to power output.
I will try to describe how the carb/governor linkages work in engine operation....
As you set the handlebar throttle to Fast position you will be tensioning the governor spring and thus opening up carb spindle/throttle disc. As the engine revs increase the in sump governor counteracts the tension on the governor spring to equilibrium this closes the carb spindle/throttle disc and settles the engine revs to the desired speed as set. As a load is placed on the engine by the rotavator working the engine revs would tend to start to fall..this lessens the governors pull and the spring pulls the carb throttle disc open a bit more increasing the revs back to the desired setting. In reality this should all happen constantly....with the governor versus spring maintaining a constant speed relative to any load applied on the engine.
For lower speeds the operation is such that the governor spring is at a lower tension allowing for the in sump governor to more easily shut the carb butterfly disc resulting in the maintainance of a lower governed engine speed.
At tickover there may be little or no tension on the spring...so the governor will maintain the engine at tickover. In reality on some engines B&S have designed it so as the spring physically rests against the governor arm maintaining things in the tickover position.
The subject is quite difficult to describe...and I hope the above helps...but again urge you to consult a local service agent if the set up remains puzzling rather than take any risks.
All the best,
Clive.
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Roger Williams
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Phew - And I thought I was really making progress! Anyway, no damage done thanks to your quick posts. I've printed out your latest connection sequence & will try again. I may seem slightly shy about talking to my local agents but I live in France & my French is not that good on technical subjects! Thanks again, Roger
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Clive.
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Yes, I was somewhat alarmed to read the described connection. 
..and it caused some fast typing..
..and I was mighty pleased to see your typing fingers were still intact..!!
Yes, I see the problem....it takes some description in English...and not sure that a translation with my attained grade in "O" level French would help..
Seriously though, B&S engines have been sold Worldwide over many years so a local agent may be well versed without having to delve too deeply into the French mechanical dictionary.!!
All the best,
Clive.
..and it caused some fast typing..
..and I was mighty pleased to see your typing fingers were still intact..!!
Yes, I see the problem....it takes some description in English...and not sure that a translation with my attained grade in "O" level French would help..
Seriously though, B&S engines have been sold Worldwide over many years so a local agent may be well versed without having to delve too deeply into the French mechanical dictionary.!!
All the best,
Clive.
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Clive.
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Roger,
I have just found and scanned a drawing of the lower linkage...it is in a very cutaway drawing form but hope it may help.
I have sent this via the forums private message system..hope it arrives with you all ok.
Clive.
I have just found and scanned a drawing of the lower linkage...it is in a very cutaway drawing form but hope it may help.
I have sent this via the forums private message system..hope it arrives with you all ok.
Clive.
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Roger Williams
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Hello Clive - Yes drawing arrived safely & further clarifies what i have to do. In fact made progress today & links/bellcranks from carb to governor levor & spindle now in correct order but have raised a few questions (!)-
Should the carb be at full throttle when the gov spindle is fully clockwise?
The gov lever has three holes in the end - the earlier pic showed the link to carb in end hole (which I've copied) but this seems to allow very little movement of gov lever & thus of gov spindle. Is this (probably) OK?
Does the (short stubby) spring attached to the tank-leg bellcrank just slip over the gov-spinle end of the gov arm? (I was looking for a small hole!)
Sorry this goes on & on! Regards, Roger [/u]
Should the carb be at full throttle when the gov spindle is fully clockwise?
The gov lever has three holes in the end - the earlier pic showed the link to carb in end hole (which I've copied) but this seems to allow very little movement of gov lever & thus of gov spindle. Is this (probably) OK?
Does the (short stubby) spring attached to the tank-leg bellcrank just slip over the gov-spinle end of the gov arm? (I was looking for a small hole!)
Sorry this goes on & on! Regards, Roger [/u]
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Clive.
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Hello Roger,
I feel sure that the short stubby governor spring will hook into a hole in the governor arm/lever.
I seem to recall that the other end of this spring fits into a hole in tank leg bell crank on a short arm that is sort of turned forward a little...not easy to describe.!!.. but I think the drawing I sent does show this.??.
With the tank leg bell crank turned to tickover postion I seem to think that the stubby spring will come to rest with its side against a sort of notch cut out shape in the lower edge of the gov' arm/lever.??
Somehow I would have expected the long link to go in the end hole of the governor arm/lever. What I can't remember or visualise is if the thin spring that may be over the long link to take up slack shares the same hole as the link or if its end hooks alongside in a small adjacent hole.??
Some logic would perhaps then suggest.??...the very end hole for link..perhaps a slightly smaller next hole for thin spring over the link...and perhaps the next for the stubby gov spring.???
Yes, the carburettor throttle spindle will need to be in full open position when you make the clockwise turn of the spindle that protrudes out the back of the engine. With the adjustment done tighten the clamp nut/bolt on the gov arm/lever. (All done with engine switched off..of course.!!). Thus the action should be that when the engine is started that the governor is immediately poised to shut the carb' throttle spindle down to a sensible max' revs.
You should be able to simulate this statically, to double check that all is free to move correctly, by lifting the governor arm/lever...this will be seen/felt to pull against the governor spring (short stubby spring)..closing the carb throttle spindle such that the tickover screw comes into contact with its base as in the closed tickover position.
I hope I have recalled it correctly this time I get ever more nervous at writing service instructions partly due to the 15 plus years since I worked on this engine type and foremost, of course, not wanting to get it wrong and it all go BANG on someone ...and I add again that before attempting a run do make sure that you have means to stop the engine..should the gov' set up be wrong..and it all decides to go ape..!!
I was in e-communication with Richard today..and he added a very useful thought that I had not considered. With the throttle cable attached via the tank leg bell crank that this could bring throttle cable in proximity to the tines. Perhaps another thing to be aware of and look out for.!!
All the best,
Clive.
I feel sure that the short stubby governor spring will hook into a hole in the governor arm/lever.
I seem to recall that the other end of this spring fits into a hole in tank leg bell crank on a short arm that is sort of turned forward a little...not easy to describe.!!.. but I think the drawing I sent does show this.??.
With the tank leg bell crank turned to tickover postion I seem to think that the stubby spring will come to rest with its side against a sort of notch cut out shape in the lower edge of the gov' arm/lever.??
Somehow I would have expected the long link to go in the end hole of the governor arm/lever. What I can't remember or visualise is if the thin spring that may be over the long link to take up slack shares the same hole as the link or if its end hooks alongside in a small adjacent hole.??
Some logic would perhaps then suggest.??...the very end hole for link..perhaps a slightly smaller next hole for thin spring over the link...and perhaps the next for the stubby gov spring.???
Yes, the carburettor throttle spindle will need to be in full open position when you make the clockwise turn of the spindle that protrudes out the back of the engine. With the adjustment done tighten the clamp nut/bolt on the gov arm/lever. (All done with engine switched off..of course.!!). Thus the action should be that when the engine is started that the governor is immediately poised to shut the carb' throttle spindle down to a sensible max' revs.
You should be able to simulate this statically, to double check that all is free to move correctly, by lifting the governor arm/lever...this will be seen/felt to pull against the governor spring (short stubby spring)..closing the carb throttle spindle such that the tickover screw comes into contact with its base as in the closed tickover position.
I hope I have recalled it correctly this time
I get ever more nervous at writing service instructions partly due to the 15 plus years since I worked on this engine type and foremost, of course, not wanting to get it wrong and it all go BANG on someone ...and I add again that before attempting a run do make sure that you have means to stop the engine..should the gov' set up be wrong..and it all decides to go ape..!!
I was in e-communication with Richard today..and he added a very useful thought that I had not considered. With the throttle cable attached via the tank leg bell crank that this could bring throttle cable in proximity to the tines. Perhaps another thing to be aware of and look out for.!!
All the best,
Clive.