Hi Peat,
Peat wrote:
It is already illegal to save your own seed in Iraq.
Where did this piece of information come from?
What are you trying to say with yor usual one line?
Quite frankly I do not believe that it is illegal to save your own seed anywhere.
With GM seed it is possible to save your own seed but you must pay plant breeders rights and inform the company that you propose to do so. Before you go into one, these are exactly the same as for any
conventional seed that is covered by Breeders Rights.
JB.
GM potatoes
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud
Saturday 15th
According to Farming Today This Week on Radio 4 the farmer who was going to accommodate the trial in Derbyshire has pulled out because of threats to him and his family. The trials in Cambridgeshire will still go ahead but without the same diversity of conditions of two trials. There was no question of alien species being involved so any remarks about that here were irrelevant to the original topic.
Allan
According to Farming Today This Week on Radio 4 the farmer who was going to accommodate the trial in Derbyshire has pulled out because of threats to him and his family. The trials in Cambridgeshire will still go ahead but without the same diversity of conditions of two trials. There was no question of alien species being involved so any remarks about that here were irrelevant to the original topic.
Allan
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Cider Boys
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Once again the bully boys (and girls) have dictated that their views will remain supreme by their threats of violence. What sort of democracy have we become when terrorist threats such as these prevail over lawful research?
Barney
Barney
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Chantal
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I recall hearing something about Iraqis having to destroy their seed unless they had a licence so I looked it up. Pete's right in so much as they have to pay the US for a licence or keeping seed is illegal. Go to http://www.rense.com/general62/seeds.htm
and see what you make of it; there are lots of other references on Google.
and see what you make of it; there are lots of other references on Google.
Chantal
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
hi jb can you expand on what seeds commonly saved by gardeners are still covered by plant breeders rights?, should we be paying royalties when we save our own seed from say gardeners delight tomatoes, early onward peas, or saving a few pink fir apple spuds to plant next year?, is there a definative list of "free to save" seeds?
Hi Richard,
When this thread started I warned Barney that he would be lucky to get a meaningful debate.
Your childish posting goes to prove my point.
May I suggest that at your age you should have grown up by now but apparently this is not so.
Chantal,
Thank you for the website and I will look into this further but remember there are many totally untruthful websites on Google. I suspect this to be one of them.
JB.
When this thread started I warned Barney that he would be lucky to get a meaningful debate.
Your childish posting goes to prove my point.
May I suggest that at your age you should have grown up by now but apparently this is not so.
Chantal,
Thank you for the website and I will look into this further but remember there are many totally untruthful websites on Google. I suspect this to be one of them.
JB.
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Chantal
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JB, I agree totally with what you're saying about Google but I'm sure I recall this being on the BBC news back in around 2002/3. However, I agree that the BBC can be just as unreliable so I'll look forward to your findings.
Chantal
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
it is reports like the following which have given gm a bad name with the public.
Monsatan, for which they have been awarded the Captain Hook Award 2004 for Worst Corporate Offender, have taken out a European patent on soft-milling, low-gluten wheat that is derived from a traditional Indian wheat variety, Nap Hal. Nap Hal has been traditionally used for making chapatis, the flat bread traditional to northern India. Nap Hal has less gluten than other wheat varieties, which gives it lower viscoelasticity, meaning it expands less during baking. This makes it ideal for crisp breads such as chapatis. Monsatan's patent (European Patent No. EP0445929B1) claims intellectual property rights not only for the low-gluten wheat, but also the flour, dough and edible products (biscuits, cake, etc.) produced from it! Greenpeace, the Research Foundation for Science, Technology and Ecology and the Indian farmers' organization, Bharat Krishak Samaj (BKS), are opposing Monsatan's patent at the European Patent Office.
http://home.clara.net/heureka/gaia/seeds.htm
ive included the web address for anyone interested
Monsatan, for which they have been awarded the Captain Hook Award 2004 for Worst Corporate Offender, have taken out a European patent on soft-milling, low-gluten wheat that is derived from a traditional Indian wheat variety, Nap Hal. Nap Hal has been traditionally used for making chapatis, the flat bread traditional to northern India. Nap Hal has less gluten than other wheat varieties, which gives it lower viscoelasticity, meaning it expands less during baking. This makes it ideal for crisp breads such as chapatis. Monsatan's patent (European Patent No. EP0445929B1) claims intellectual property rights not only for the low-gluten wheat, but also the flour, dough and edible products (biscuits, cake, etc.) produced from it! Greenpeace, the Research Foundation for Science, Technology and Ecology and the Indian farmers' organization, Bharat Krishak Samaj (BKS), are opposing Monsatan's patent at the European Patent Office.
http://home.clara.net/heureka/gaia/seeds.htm
ive included the web address for anyone interested
Richard,
As usual you are distorting the truth. It all revolves round the words you used. DERIVED FROM.
They can only patent what they have Modified and the particular wheat, wherever it comes from, is unaffected. It is only when they wish to grow the GM variety that the patent would apply.
The way you represent it is that if Monsanto modified a Carrot then none of us could any longer grow carrots without paying a royalty to Monsanto which even you must see is patent nonsense.
It is misrepresentation like this that gives GM a bad name.
I also find the word Monsatan an exceedingly childish thing to write.
JB.
As usual you are distorting the truth. It all revolves round the words you used. DERIVED FROM.
They can only patent what they have Modified and the particular wheat, wherever it comes from, is unaffected. It is only when they wish to grow the GM variety that the patent would apply.
The way you represent it is that if Monsanto modified a Carrot then none of us could any longer grow carrots without paying a royalty to Monsanto which even you must see is patent nonsense.
It is misrepresentation like this that gives GM a bad name.
I also find the word Monsatan an exceedingly childish thing to write.
JB.
jb maybe had you looked at the website link you would have realised that the post you refer to was cut and pasted from it, which hopefully would have had some influence on the way you have replied.
but past experience suggests not.
did you not notice the first line
"it is reports like the following which have given gm a bad name with the public."
i thought that clearly states that what follows has come from another source.
i made no other comment on the content of the report, giving no indication of whether i thought it was accurate or not.
i am saddenend by your vitriolic response but somehow not suprised , unfortunatly it is becoming what we expect from you on threads on certain pet subjects of yours.
but past experience suggests not.
did you not notice the first line
"it is reports like the following which have given gm a bad name with the public."
i thought that clearly states that what follows has come from another source.
i made no other comment on the content of the report, giving no indication of whether i thought it was accurate or not.
i am saddenend by your vitriolic response but somehow not suprised , unfortunatly it is becoming what we expect from you on threads on certain pet subjects of yours.
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Mr Potato Head
There are growing instances where patents on non-GM crops are being enforced. Typically these are US based, but as is often the case what happens there, happens here eventually.
Please don't misconstrue this as me being on either side of the debate here, I'm simply trying to keep us all informed!
http://www.cropchoice.com/leadstrya594.html?recid=540
I have had a brief look around, and it seems difficult to find anyone prepared to give a 'pro' argument for the rights of the companies that own these patents. Can anyone find something?
However, just to clarify the Iraq debate, try reading this...
http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=6
Please don't misconstrue this as me being on either side of the debate here, I'm simply trying to keep us all informed!
http://www.cropchoice.com/leadstrya594.html?recid=540
I have had a brief look around, and it seems difficult to find anyone prepared to give a 'pro' argument for the rights of the companies that own these patents. Can anyone find something?
However, just to clarify the Iraq debate, try reading this...
http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=6
Hi Mr PH,
According to the website that Peat posted it states that Iraqi's are no longer allowed to save their own seed and you are mislead into thinking that this means ALL seeds. This is a deliberate ploy of the anti-GM faction and below is the true statement contained in your second website. Previously I wrote that they can only patent that which they have modified and I think that has been proved to be true.
Your website is concerning US Law and really it looks like you are suggesting that we will be following US Law sometime in the future which I do not think there is the slightest chance.
***
CLARIFICATION - February 2005 The report jointly issued by Focus on the Global South and GRAIN in October 2004 on Iraq's new patent law has received a lot of attention worldwide. It has also generated a misunderstanding that we wish to clarify. The law does not prohibit Iraqi farmers from using or saving "traditional" seeds. It prohibits them from reusing seeds of "new" plant varieties registered under the law. In practical terms, this means they cannot save those seeds for re-use either. The report has been revised to express this more clearly.
JB.
According to the website that Peat posted it states that Iraqi's are no longer allowed to save their own seed and you are mislead into thinking that this means ALL seeds. This is a deliberate ploy of the anti-GM faction and below is the true statement contained in your second website. Previously I wrote that they can only patent that which they have modified and I think that has been proved to be true.
Your website is concerning US Law and really it looks like you are suggesting that we will be following US Law sometime in the future which I do not think there is the slightest chance.
***
CLARIFICATION - February 2005 The report jointly issued by Focus on the Global South and GRAIN in October 2004 on Iraq's new patent law has received a lot of attention worldwide. It has also generated a misunderstanding that we wish to clarify. The law does not prohibit Iraqi farmers from using or saving "traditional" seeds. It prohibits them from reusing seeds of "new" plant varieties registered under the law. In practical terms, this means they cannot save those seeds for re-use either. The report has been revised to express this more clearly.
JB.