Raised beds: north-south or east-west?
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud
Barry,
I'd strongly recommend that, if you can, invest (£9.99) in Joy Larkcom's Grow your own Vegetables book.
Not only (chapter 2) will it give you: Vegetables need as much sunshine as possible, so the ideal site for vegetable growing in a temperate climate is 'open', in the sense that it is in full sunshine for most of the day and is not facing north.....
and then: Shelter from strong winds is another key element in creating optimum conditions for veg growing. It goes without saying that a flat site, provided it is well drained, is far easier to work than a sloping site. So where there is a choice avoid deeply shaded exposed and steep sites.
It's a GREAT book Barry, and I've learned a lot from it. Stick it on your Christmas Prezzy List, if you can wait that long !!
I'd strongly recommend that, if you can, invest (£9.99) in Joy Larkcom's Grow your own Vegetables book.
Not only (chapter 2) will it give you: Vegetables need as much sunshine as possible, so the ideal site for vegetable growing in a temperate climate is 'open', in the sense that it is in full sunshine for most of the day and is not facing north.....
and then: Shelter from strong winds is another key element in creating optimum conditions for veg growing. It goes without saying that a flat site, provided it is well drained, is far easier to work than a sloping site. So where there is a choice avoid deeply shaded exposed and steep sites.
It's a GREAT book Barry, and I've learned a lot from it. Stick it on your Christmas Prezzy List, if you can wait that long !!
What sunshine is to flowers, smiles are to humanity. The good they do is inconceivable....
Sorry, I just re-read your posting, and you asked people for their 'reasoning' re N-S, E-W.
I've had my 'grown-up girls' greenhouse aligned from NW to SE these last 6 years and have had some fabulous crops, but we're about to re-align her virtually east to west. It would take far too long to explain WHY, but(as well) it WILL give my girls far more sunshine with this new positioning....
Of course Aubergines LOVE lots of sunshine, but Tomatoes sometimes need a little shading to avoid that dreaded Greenback....and Cucumbers like a tad shade as well..... complicated little darlings, eh?!
I've not helped, have I ?!
I've had my 'grown-up girls' greenhouse aligned from NW to SE these last 6 years and have had some fabulous crops, but we're about to re-align her virtually east to west. It would take far too long to explain WHY, but(as well) it WILL give my girls far more sunshine with this new positioning....
Of course Aubergines LOVE lots of sunshine, but Tomatoes sometimes need a little shading to avoid that dreaded Greenback....and Cucumbers like a tad shade as well..... complicated little darlings, eh?!
I've not helped, have I ?!
What sunshine is to flowers, smiles are to humanity. The good they do is inconceivable....
The general advice is to site ones garden running east-west, and then run the beds north-south. This means that in theory each of them gets the same amount of sun.
My beds are 4' wide, so this means I shouldn't have to tread on them, as most of it is reachable from the side. With our heavy clay, I am anxious to compact it as little as possible.
A complication is the shadow cast by high crops like bean rows. I usually run one row of bean poles down one side of the legume bed, and have lower-growing legumes down the other side. This year I had two legume beds side by side and I hadn't allowed for the gully of shadow between them which affected the ripening of the crop in between.
Alison.
My beds are 4' wide, so this means I shouldn't have to tread on them, as most of it is reachable from the side. With our heavy clay, I am anxious to compact it as little as possible.
A complication is the shadow cast by high crops like bean rows. I usually run one row of bean poles down one side of the legume bed, and have lower-growing legumes down the other side. This year I had two legume beds side by side and I hadn't allowed for the gully of shadow between them which affected the ripening of the crop in between.
Alison.
I agree with Alison.
As far as possible I always try to align everything so that the growing rows are in a N-S direction to catch the morning sun on one side and the afternoon sun on the other. How you align your beds, I think, will depend on how you plan to use them - are you going to use short rows across the width or long rows down the length of the beds?
John
As far as possible I always try to align everything so that the growing rows are in a N-S direction to catch the morning sun on one side and the afternoon sun on the other. How you align your beds, I think, will depend on how you plan to use them - are you going to use short rows across the width or long rows down the length of the beds?
John
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What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
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I am a man and the world is my urinal
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peter
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Greenhouse advice is north south alignment.
Unless there is a north wall, or house/shed structure.
Reasoning being twofold, first that the sloping sides of the roof are then aligned to allow through the maximum light in morning and evening, while being aligned to deflect (as much as they can) by reflection at noon. Second that the longest and thus largest sides face the "time" of lower weaker sun, allowing more light to hit the structure when it is weaker, at noon, the time of higher stronger sun, less wall/roof is presented to the suns direct rays.
Yes I know glass is transparent, but it does reflect some if the angles are right, to me the area exposed argument holds up.
Remember for a greenhouse we are into the surface area versus volume argument on size and area facing the sun at any one time. (1 cubic cm has 6cm square surface wheras 2 cubic cm abutting each other have 10cm squared and so on) The bigger the house the slower it looses or gains heat from its surroundings, if irregularly shaped (oblong as opposed to square) then the loss or gain can be varied by the way the differing surface areas face.
Based on all that I reckon the same argument sort of applies to crops, but very tenuously.
The recommended in-row spacings are closer than the recommended inter row gap on all crops, barring a square of sweetcorn, therefore each plant will shade its row neighbour more than the plant in the next row.
Reason I say it is tenuous, is that it is probably a negligable effect and is probably outweighed by the consequent greater surface evaporation from exposed soil between the rows at noon. Also it depends on you using rows with the mismatched spacing described above.
The prevailing wind, slope (and thus frost flow) are probably more relevant if you row, if you space evenly, then no difference.
So what MUST one row.
I think that would only be root crops directly sown into the soil, anything can be transplanted into evenly spaced plants.
Donkey hind leg anyone?
Unless there is a north wall, or house/shed structure.
Reasoning being twofold, first that the sloping sides of the roof are then aligned to allow through the maximum light in morning and evening, while being aligned to deflect (as much as they can) by reflection at noon. Second that the longest and thus largest sides face the "time" of lower weaker sun, allowing more light to hit the structure when it is weaker, at noon, the time of higher stronger sun, less wall/roof is presented to the suns direct rays.
Yes I know glass is transparent, but it does reflect some if the angles are right, to me the area exposed argument holds up.
Remember for a greenhouse we are into the surface area versus volume argument on size and area facing the sun at any one time. (1 cubic cm has 6cm square surface wheras 2 cubic cm abutting each other have 10cm squared and so on) The bigger the house the slower it looses or gains heat from its surroundings, if irregularly shaped (oblong as opposed to square) then the loss or gain can be varied by the way the differing surface areas face.
Based on all that I reckon the same argument sort of applies to crops, but very tenuously.
The recommended in-row spacings are closer than the recommended inter row gap on all crops, barring a square of sweetcorn, therefore each plant will shade its row neighbour more than the plant in the next row.
Reason I say it is tenuous, is that it is probably a negligable effect and is probably outweighed by the consequent greater surface evaporation from exposed soil between the rows at noon. Also it depends on you using rows with the mismatched spacing described above.
The prevailing wind, slope (and thus frost flow) are probably more relevant if you row, if you space evenly, then no difference.
So what MUST one row.
I think that would only be root crops directly sown into the soil, anything can be transplanted into evenly spaced plants.
Donkey hind leg anyone?
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Colin Miles
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If your plot is not shaded in anyway I would say that the prevailing wind direction is the most important factor, particularly in the Spring and Autumn. My Broad Beans, which were all facing the wind got rather blown to pieces, whereas my Peas rows, which didn't, survived much better.
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STEVE PARTRIDGE
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Hi Barry, I agree with the majority of views here and that is to have your beds running from North to South to enable an even amount of sunshine and the best light to get on the crops, this is what I have done on my allotments and with good success, regards Steve.
http://www.myallotments.blogspot.com
http://www.myallotments.blogspot.com
NS would be the most natural direction based on where my plot is situated. From what I can make out, the whole area is a fantastic sun trap and is particularly sheltered from strong wind.
A PS to this posting is therefore: Have any of you been able to blag old sleepers off of Network Rail? These things cost a fortune and I don't have any more money available after buying the rabbit proof fence. We are actually on an island site surrounded by railway lines; Network Rail has access to the site and also a WH here.
A PS to this posting is therefore: Have any of you been able to blag old sleepers off of Network Rail? These things cost a fortune and I don't have any more money available after buying the rabbit proof fence. We are actually on an island site surrounded by railway lines; Network Rail has access to the site and also a WH here.
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peter
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Barry wrote:A PS to this posting is therefore: Have any of you been able to blag old sleepers off of Network Rail? These things cost a fortune and I don't have any more money available after buying the rabbit proof fence. We are actually on an island site surrounded by railway lines; Network Rail has access to the site and also a WH here.
HA HA.
When grade "B" are circa £20 delivered you reckon NR or their subbies are going to succumb to blaggers!
If they do PM me and I'll bring the trailer.
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.
I support http://www.hearingdogs.org.uk/
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