Jenny, you may know what Organic is all about but to the Great British Public when we serve them our fare it comes down to two questions
Are you Organic
Do you spray
When we explain our position they are almost all totally reassured that our food is totally safe and to be trusted. It has nothing to do with being Organic (we are not, cannot afford to, don't need to be) or that we spray (we do not spray insecticides as we don't need to),but being able to trust the produce and the producer is all that matters.
People will always try to regard issues in the most simplistic of ways.
E.U Interference!!!*****!!!
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Jenny Green
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Well whether the Great British Public have a good or poor idea of what is meant by the term 'Organic' is debatable. In my experience most people who buy organic are well educated and I give them more credit for understanding than others do, it seems. However, posters on this forum are growers, not the Great British Public, so my point is that silly remarks about how the sodium chloride we put on our food is a chemical too are irrelevant and misplaced.
I too trust and buy from local growers. We regularly buy half a pig or half a lamb from a local grower, but only after I talked to him in detail about how the animals are raised. I would never buy from you, Allan, because you spray everywhere liberally with weedkiller (even your compost
). How clearly is this explained to your buyers when you tell them you don't spray with insecticide?
At least when buyers see the term 'Organic' they have a fair idea of the growing conditions of the food whether they can talk to the grower or not. Of course the ideal situation would be that we could all trust that the food we eat isn't contaminated and the land has been treated well. Organic standards are just an (sometimes inadequate I admit) attempt to move towards this.
I too trust and buy from local growers. We regularly buy half a pig or half a lamb from a local grower, but only after I talked to him in detail about how the animals are raised. I would never buy from you, Allan, because you spray everywhere liberally with weedkiller (even your compost
). How clearly is this explained to your buyers when you tell them you don't spray with insecticide?
At least when buyers see the term 'Organic' they have a fair idea of the growing conditions of the food whether they can talk to the grower or not. Of course the ideal situation would be that we could all trust that the food we eat isn't contaminated and the land has been treated well. Organic standards are just an (sometimes inadequate I admit) attempt to move towards this.
(Formerly known as 'Organic Freak')
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
i think its accecpted that noboby on this forum is an Organic grower (ie registered with the soil association and following their rules) we all know they impose rules for commercial growers so arguments about soil association standards and rules are irrelivant to us gardeners, many of whom are gardening for their own consumption without factory produced fertilisers and poisons. whatever substances any gardener choses to use on their own veg is their decision, i just hope its an informed one, provided whatever they use stays on their own plot let them get on with it.
Quote
" I would never buy from you, Allan, because you spray everywhere liberally with weedkiller (even your compost ). How clearly is this explained to your buyers when you tell them you don't spray with insecticide? "
Whsat on earth gives you that idea. a few more like that and I would have a case for libel.
As a matter of fact the last insecticide I used was about 2 years ago, it was labelled Organic, it didn't do any good either. There is no reason at all not to use weedkiller on weeds, it is biodegradeable.
I would never spray my crops with organic tea, that is a very efficient way to spread all kinds of nasty germs. Smple chemicals are totally sterile and therefore safe, the soluble ones are washed off easily as if it mattered, no more poisonous than table salt.
Yes I do spray most crops liberally with my favourite chemicals, rainwater and tap water.
As to safety standards we have the Food Standards Authority to ensure that the rigorous safety standards are applied to all food sold in this country so all the scary propoganda coming from the organic lobby is meaningless.
" I would never buy from you, Allan, because you spray everywhere liberally with weedkiller (even your compost ). How clearly is this explained to your buyers when you tell them you don't spray with insecticide? "
Whsat on earth gives you that idea. a few more like that and I would have a case for libel.
As a matter of fact the last insecticide I used was about 2 years ago, it was labelled Organic, it didn't do any good either. There is no reason at all not to use weedkiller on weeds, it is biodegradeable.
I would never spray my crops with organic tea, that is a very efficient way to spread all kinds of nasty germs. Smple chemicals are totally sterile and therefore safe, the soluble ones are washed off easily as if it mattered, no more poisonous than table salt.
Yes I do spray most crops liberally with my favourite chemicals, rainwater and tap water.
As to safety standards we have the Food Standards Authority to ensure that the rigorous safety standards are applied to all food sold in this country so all the scary propoganda coming from the organic lobby is meaningless.
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Jenny Green
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- Location: East Midlands
Hi Allan
I'm sure the following quotes from you would stand up well in my defence should you ever decide to press libel charges. Remember, it's only libel if it isn't true.
PostWed Aug 02, 2006 4:13 pm
I have 2 bins, clean and dirty e.g. seeds, perennials
There is no trouble with the clean stuff. The dirty stuff, when we empty it, will be laid out annd allowed to grow then sprayed with glyphosate.
Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:41 pm
My c.minor is all going beautifully yellow with fast-acting Roundup (equivalent) spray applied to it. The thistle-spraying season has just begun. Tallyho!
Allan
Roundup alternatives
PostFri Apr 07, 2006 9:53 am
Apart from any bulk spraying I like to have a ready-to-use sprayer handy wherever I am working in case there is a deep-rooted perennial weed that needs attention. I have almost always used Roundup RTU, now fast acting, but does it have to be Roundup, how do other brands compare, there are many at a pound or so cheaper, maybe they don't represent value for money. Actually we still haven't come to terms with the latest spray head with its 'switch' and frothing ring. I have to buy 7 sprayers to have 1 in each polytunnel plus maybe 1 for the uncovered area we call the 'allotment' so it's worth getting it right.
I have tried refilling but it never seems as good, isn't fast acting and is only reckoned to stay fully active a short time
Comments please
Allan
You most defintely do spray liberally with weedkiller. Do you explain this to your buyers at the same time as telling them you don't use insecticide? If you don't, you are seriously misleading them about your growing practices. Whether you think weedkiller is harmless or not is up to you. But to not inform your buyers you use it is misleading them. You would give the impression you follow Organic practices when you don't.
What if you were to inadvertantly spray a vegetable? The effects of glyphosate take a week a or two to show, so you could sell that produce to an unsuspecting buyer. Do you have enough respect for your buyers to let them make a fully informed choice about whether to buy from you?
I would far rather buy from someone who sprayed their crops with 'nasty organic tea'
than you, I'm afraid.
I'm sure the following quotes from you would stand up well in my defence should you ever decide to press libel charges. Remember, it's only libel if it isn't true.
PostWed Aug 02, 2006 4:13 pm
I have 2 bins, clean and dirty e.g. seeds, perennials
There is no trouble with the clean stuff. The dirty stuff, when we empty it, will be laid out annd allowed to grow then sprayed with glyphosate.
Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:41 pm
My c.minor is all going beautifully yellow with fast-acting Roundup (equivalent) spray applied to it. The thistle-spraying season has just begun. Tallyho!
Allan
Roundup alternatives
PostFri Apr 07, 2006 9:53 am
Apart from any bulk spraying I like to have a ready-to-use sprayer handy wherever I am working in case there is a deep-rooted perennial weed that needs attention. I have almost always used Roundup RTU, now fast acting, but does it have to be Roundup, how do other brands compare, there are many at a pound or so cheaper, maybe they don't represent value for money. Actually we still haven't come to terms with the latest spray head with its 'switch' and frothing ring. I have to buy 7 sprayers to have 1 in each polytunnel plus maybe 1 for the uncovered area we call the 'allotment' so it's worth getting it right.
I have tried refilling but it never seems as good, isn't fast acting and is only reckoned to stay fully active a short time
Comments please
Allan
You most defintely do spray liberally with weedkiller. Do you explain this to your buyers at the same time as telling them you don't use insecticide? If you don't, you are seriously misleading them about your growing practices. Whether you think weedkiller is harmless or not is up to you. But to not inform your buyers you use it is misleading them. You would give the impression you follow Organic practices when you don't.
What if you were to inadvertantly spray a vegetable? The effects of glyphosate take a week a or two to show, so you could sell that produce to an unsuspecting buyer. Do you have enough respect for your buyers to let them make a fully informed choice about whether to buy from you?
I would far rather buy from someone who sprayed their crops with 'nasty organic tea'
than you, I'm afraid.(Formerly known as 'Organic Freak')
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
I am in an industry that uses chemicals all the time....There are bad chemicals and some that are not so bad.
Although many people within my industry (not all) are aware of the risks with the chemicals that are available to them so often time and cost is put before any health/safety considerations.
It is my belief that my own industries actions reflect society today ....money and personal gain is paramount
Although many people within my industry (not all) are aware of the risks with the chemicals that are available to them so often time and cost is put before any health/safety considerations.
It is my belief that my own industries actions reflect society today ....money and personal gain is paramount
I am in my own little world, ...it's OK, ...they know me there!
JG
I would have thought you would have had better things to do than collate all that. It seems not.
All my sprays are used according to legal requirements and manufacturers instructions. I don't see anything wrong with the actions you have picked out. In no case is anything sprayed which will later be eaten, in fact one of your quotes it hasn't happened yet and may never happen. There is no justification whatsoever in the use of the word 'liberally' I would be foolish indeed to throw my money about in the way you imply.
To me the quotes you have picked out emphasise careful use in the exact spot where a momentary squirt is all that is needed.
You might have a case if I were ever claiming Organic status which is something I would never do.
If you saw our notice, freely displayed, you would realise that we state that we are 'NOT ORGANICALLY REGISTERED'. The local health food shop has been eager to take all we have been able to supply to them in the past 17 years.
Please stop muckraking and get back to your gardening.
I would have thought you would have had better things to do than collate all that. It seems not.
All my sprays are used according to legal requirements and manufacturers instructions. I don't see anything wrong with the actions you have picked out. In no case is anything sprayed which will later be eaten, in fact one of your quotes it hasn't happened yet and may never happen. There is no justification whatsoever in the use of the word 'liberally' I would be foolish indeed to throw my money about in the way you imply.
To me the quotes you have picked out emphasise careful use in the exact spot where a momentary squirt is all that is needed.
You might have a case if I were ever claiming Organic status which is something I would never do.
If you saw our notice, freely displayed, you would realise that we state that we are 'NOT ORGANICALLY REGISTERED'. The local health food shop has been eager to take all we have been able to supply to them in the past 17 years.
Please stop muckraking and get back to your gardening.
some reasons not to use glyphosate products.
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roun ... et-Cox.htm
Pete
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roun ... et-Cox.htm
Pete
skype me on pmrout
"To be a successful farmer, one must first know the NATURE of the SOIL" Xenophon , Oeconomicus 400 B.C.
"To be a successful farmer, one must first know the NATURE of the SOIL" Xenophon , Oeconomicus 400 B.C.
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Jenny Green
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I ask you again, Allan, do you tell your buyers that you spray weedkiller around the crops you sell?
(Formerly known as 'Organic Freak')
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Do you tell anybody that you use a manure made from the excreta of horses or farm animals or rotted vegetable waste such as rhubarb leaves, round your crops? Do you say that the vegetables are unprotected from the deposits of wildlife of many sorts which might include rabbits suffering from myxomatosis or badgers infected with bovine TB? I doubt it.
Regarding your question,I don't need to tell them either way. I don't spray the actual crop at any time, I am not that stupid as if I did so it would die and there would be no crop. If there were a significant danger the amateur gardener would never have been allowed to use it. What I do is entirely legal and safe. This correspondence is wildly off topic and has got to stop, it is boring the pants off everybody, To put it plainly, you are being an Organic freak of the worst kind and I have no case to answer to you. If you remember, Johnboy and I agree that glyphosate is appropriate under certain conditions.
If you want to talk about this any more I suggest that you are brave enough to raise the topic on its own, not exploit this one.
THIS IS FINAL.
Allan
Regarding your question,I don't need to tell them either way. I don't spray the actual crop at any time, I am not that stupid as if I did so it would die and there would be no crop. If there were a significant danger the amateur gardener would never have been allowed to use it. What I do is entirely legal and safe. This correspondence is wildly off topic and has got to stop, it is boring the pants off everybody, To put it plainly, you are being an Organic freak of the worst kind and I have no case to answer to you. If you remember, Johnboy and I agree that glyphosate is appropriate under certain conditions.
If you want to talk about this any more I suggest that you are brave enough to raise the topic on its own, not exploit this one.
THIS IS FINAL.
Allan
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Jenny Green
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I'll take that as a 'no' then.
(Formerly known as 'Organic Freak')
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
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Cider Boys
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Incidentally, can anyone confirm that the use of Derris powder will be banned in 2007?
Barney
Barney
Evening All,
Phew!!! that certainly provoked a bit of a response
, i did not intend to start w.w.3 
over a mundane issue about what i use to dispose of black/green fly on my peas , beans etc, as to what Barney said , the information has been given to me by my local garden centres or is it some kind of marketing ploy 
.
So cap in hand i will now ask what all you soil operatives use in your quest to be at one with nature, as an aside i don't have a problem picking up horse droppings or cowpats(yes they do still exist!)with my hands but would not do the same with dog poo,
Regards Paul
Phew!!! that certainly provoked a bit of a response
, i did not intend to start w.w.3 over a mundane issue about what i use to dispose of black/green fly on my peas , beans etc, as to what Barney said , the information has been given to me by my local garden centres or is it some kind of marketing ploy .
So cap in hand i will now ask what all you soil operatives use in your quest to be at one with nature, as an aside i don't have a problem picking up horse droppings or cowpats(yes they do still exist!)with my hands but would not do the same with dog poo,
Regards Paul