Yesterday I was stripping off the lower leaves from the cordons and notice that the GD were changing it's fruiting habit! The lower trusses cantained many flowers (upto 64 give or take a counting error) but the upper trusses were only producing about 8 flowers.
Just thought I'd let you know.
Gardeners delight question
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
Hi Vivianne,
This morning I visited the person who grew his GD very cool in the formative stage last year (he has got heating but is too tight to use it) and strangely his are exactly as you have described yours.
The first trusses have completely mutated and there are several trusses off the first truss and whereas I made a social call so I could not investigate as much as I would have liked but I could see that there are masses of cherry size tomatoes on the lowest trusses and the others have about 8 tomatoes on them. They have put on good lush growth and are really in good fettle. These are fed with much diluted well matured FYM.
This morning I visited the person who grew his GD very cool in the formative stage last year (he has got heating but is too tight to use it) and strangely his are exactly as you have described yours.
The first trusses have completely mutated and there are several trusses off the first truss and whereas I made a social call so I could not investigate as much as I would have liked but I could see that there are masses of cherry size tomatoes on the lowest trusses and the others have about 8 tomatoes on them. They have put on good lush growth and are really in good fettle. These are fed with much diluted well matured FYM.
JB.
And so the plot thickens....this problem just wont hold still and be analysed will it?
You see I have the opposite effect in that my first trusses are 16-18 fruits but it is the ones at the top of the greenhouse that are spurring on spurs.
Regardless of that Johnboy you are definatley onto something here - excellent stuff.
David
You see I have the opposite effect in that my first trusses are 16-18 fruits but it is the ones at the top of the greenhouse that are spurring on spurs.
Regardless of that Johnboy you are definatley onto something here - excellent stuff.
David
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bigpepperplant
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reading all your small GD posts with interest since mine, in the polytunnel, are about 2inches in diameter and I wish they were smaller! The trouble is that although the bottoms are red, there is still a yellow/green smudge on the shoulders (not greenback I don't think) right up until they get overripe and start to split so I'm finding it really hard to tell the optimum time for harvesting.
They get watered every other day, fed once a week with seaweed feed and are growing as cordons trained on strings right up to the polytunnel roof (about 12 foot)
They get watered every other day, fed once a week with seaweed feed and are growing as cordons trained on strings right up to the polytunnel roof (about 12 foot)
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Primrose
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Is this variety renowned for splitting skins if watering is uneven? Mine are in the same border with various other varieties, all of whom have had received the same watering treatment, yet this variety is the only one with split skins.
It has meant that this summer I've had to use many of them for cooking & turning to purree to avoid them rotting, rather than for salads, yet of all of the varieties, I think these are best suited to eating raw.
Are there any other cherry tomatoes which don't have this unfortunate habit?
It has meant that this summer I've had to use many of them for cooking & turning to purree to avoid them rotting, rather than for salads, yet of all of the varieties, I think these are best suited to eating raw.
Are there any other cherry tomatoes which don't have this unfortunate habit?
Hi Primrose,
With GD I have never experienced splitting with those grown in the greenhouse or those grown outside. I can understand this year those growing outside splitting if they had not been watered sufficiently and then being deluged with the amount of rain we had. This year I have not grown any tomatoes outside but had I done so I would probably have experienced splitting.
As said earlier I have grown GD for more years than I can remember and I have never experienced them growing as a cherry variety but if you let them grow on after you have grown 5 trusses as a cordon without taking the top of the plant do go on to produce masses of small cherry tomatoes. Yet plants raised by me but grown under a different regime have produced Cherry Tomatoes even when grown as cordons.
None of this seems to make sense but I somehow think there is something we are all missing. It's probably staring us in the face. But what!!!
With GD I have never experienced splitting with those grown in the greenhouse or those grown outside. I can understand this year those growing outside splitting if they had not been watered sufficiently and then being deluged with the amount of rain we had. This year I have not grown any tomatoes outside but had I done so I would probably have experienced splitting.
As said earlier I have grown GD for more years than I can remember and I have never experienced them growing as a cherry variety but if you let them grow on after you have grown 5 trusses as a cordon without taking the top of the plant do go on to produce masses of small cherry tomatoes. Yet plants raised by me but grown under a different regime have produced Cherry Tomatoes even when grown as cordons.
None of this seems to make sense but I somehow think there is something we are all missing. It's probably staring us in the face. But what!!!
JB.
Just to add to the evidence I have the 7 plants of GD raised from sideshoots of the 2 I bought at the start of the season and now cropping heavily on conventional trusses. By my judgement they could not by any stretch of definition be classed as cherry size, they are what I would class as 'salad' size nor is the flavour in the same class as the 'cerise' (Fothergill) growing in the same polytunnel which has the 'bite' to the flavour that is characteristic of what one expects of a typical cherry tomato. This is in stark contrast to the results that I was getting in the Hereford glasshouse from the original 2 bought-in plants and yet the genetic material has to be the same.
So I am as baffled as you. My best guess at the moment, could it be the fact that the polythene is ageing and letting in a modified spectrum.My other suspicion is to do with the fact that GD is open-pollinated so the variability may be inherent in its genetics.It is very difficult to think of an answer with so many variables and a scientific appraisal is going to take several years.I doubt if this variability would have been spotted in ant tests by plant 'scientists' unless they were looking for it.
P.S. no splitting
Allan
So I am as baffled as you. My best guess at the moment, could it be the fact that the polythene is ageing and letting in a modified spectrum.My other suspicion is to do with the fact that GD is open-pollinated so the variability may be inherent in its genetics.It is very difficult to think of an answer with so many variables and a scientific appraisal is going to take several years.I doubt if this variability would have been spotted in ant tests by plant 'scientists' unless they were looking for it.
P.S. no splitting
Allan
Last week I had 20 split GD ALL from one truss.
However no splitting on any other trusses this year (touch wood!) and I have about 20 plants in the polytunnel.
However no splitting on any other trusses this year (touch wood!) and I have about 20 plants in the polytunnel.
I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne
Hi Vivianne,
The point that both Allan and myself are trying to convey is that the original Gadeners Delight would never have had 20 fruits on it in the first place. The original GD gave 6-8 reasonably sized Salad fruits only per truss if grown as cordons.
Somewhere along the way there has been a bad batch of seed because they certainly, it would appear, a complete change in basic characteristics.
When grown as a bush then there is a change but the basic seed irrespective where it comes from should be the same. Nowadays I simply do not know.
As I have pointed out on several occaisions seeds sown by me from the same batch and the plants taken randomly from my stock but grown in a too cool a greenhouse have been entirely different to how mine have turned out. It really cannot be coincidence because I have 12 plants and the other guy has 12 plants taken from an original stock of more than 150 plants for all mine be as they should be and his 12 with masses of very small fruits on multiple trusses yet grown as cordons.. My plants never experience a temperature of less than 10C. The other guys were simply covered with newspaper when there were several frosts in his unheated greenhouse. From this I am inclined to form the conclusion that temperature makes the vital difference.
JB.
The point that both Allan and myself are trying to convey is that the original Gadeners Delight would never have had 20 fruits on it in the first place. The original GD gave 6-8 reasonably sized Salad fruits only per truss if grown as cordons.
Somewhere along the way there has been a bad batch of seed because they certainly, it would appear, a complete change in basic characteristics.
When grown as a bush then there is a change but the basic seed irrespective where it comes from should be the same. Nowadays I simply do not know.
As I have pointed out on several occaisions seeds sown by me from the same batch and the plants taken randomly from my stock but grown in a too cool a greenhouse have been entirely different to how mine have turned out. It really cannot be coincidence because I have 12 plants and the other guy has 12 plants taken from an original stock of more than 150 plants for all mine be as they should be and his 12 with masses of very small fruits on multiple trusses yet grown as cordons.. My plants never experience a temperature of less than 10C. The other guys were simply covered with newspaper when there were several frosts in his unheated greenhouse. From this I am inclined to form the conclusion that temperature makes the vital difference.
JB.
Johnboy
I am not sure that you have understood my detail.
(1)I did not raise any GD from seed
(2)Both at Hereford and at Middle Crwys I have normal trusses
The Hereford fruit was 17-29 mm entirely
the Monmouth fruit was considerably bigger.
I have not had the massed flowers and fruit on GD in either location but other varieties in the polytunnel have gone crazy this year, including supersweet 100, Sungold, Sunset, cerise (which is a true cherry).
Allan
I am not sure that you have understood my detail.
(1)I did not raise any GD from seed
(2)Both at Hereford and at Middle Crwys I have normal trusses
The Hereford fruit was 17-29 mm entirely
the Monmouth fruit was considerably bigger.
I have not had the massed flowers and fruit on GD in either location but other varieties in the polytunnel have gone crazy this year, including supersweet 100, Sungold, Sunset, cerise (which is a true cherry).
Allan
Hi Allan,
I understood you to say that the ones at Crwys are cuttings of the two plants you bought so you would expect them, being clones, to act the same if grown under the same conditions. You fail to mention actually how many you have on a truss.
I measured two trusses yesterday evening and there are eight fruits on both and the sizes range from 32mm to 46mm Diameter and both trusses are almost identical. These are from the fifth and final trusses on two of the plants I have yet to finished taking all the fourth trusses. The plants now have masses of top growth as I have ceased training as a cordon and I ceased removing side shoots some time back. There are several trusses of twelve coming on the top growth all single trusses and no sign of actual multiple trusses forming. Within the next week or so I expect the top growth to be a mass of bloom and this will continue for at least 6 weeks and then what has set by then will take it's time to ripen and of course not all do.
I do not think here that there is any difference to last year in the growth pattern with any of the Tomato varieties.
I understood you to say that the ones at Crwys are cuttings of the two plants you bought so you would expect them, being clones, to act the same if grown under the same conditions. You fail to mention actually how many you have on a truss.
I measured two trusses yesterday evening and there are eight fruits on both and the sizes range from 32mm to 46mm Diameter and both trusses are almost identical. These are from the fifth and final trusses on two of the plants I have yet to finished taking all the fourth trusses. The plants now have masses of top growth as I have ceased training as a cordon and I ceased removing side shoots some time back. There are several trusses of twelve coming on the top growth all single trusses and no sign of actual multiple trusses forming. Within the next week or so I expect the top growth to be a mass of bloom and this will continue for at least 6 weeks and then what has set by then will take it's time to ripen and of course not all do.
I do not think here that there is any difference to last year in the growth pattern with any of the Tomato varieties.
JB.
I have been in touch with a friend who has grown GD for many years
I quote her reply
>Allan
yes I too have noticed that there seem to be a variety of GDels
around. Which is not surprising because this is a very old OP variety
which has been selected and reselected by various seed emporiums. Genetic
drift, as it is called, is a reality in seed saving. Selection to ward
against too much drift, is necessarily determined by the criteria of the
person who selects. A bit like searching for the original strain of
Kentucky Wonder bean in the USA - they are all similar, but quite different
in small details by now.
When I started gardening and grew the first GDels 27 years ago, they were
larger. As far as I remember, my first strain came from Sutton
Seeds. After a while I noticed that I had developed a bit of variation
within my 'strain' of seed which was saved and resaved from that original
batch. Got a freebie packet with a gardening mag two years ago and tried
those too, and those fruit were smaller. However - and that could explain
your differences in fruit size and flavour - we were still in drought when
the first fruits set. Later on mine were also a bit larger and the taste
was less concentrated compared to the sun-soaked early fruits. However none
were as large as the old strain, which was a two bit cherry tomato. The
new ones are also very dark red, the old ones were just a little more
orange red.
I can certainly let you have my strains of GDels to trial. Please remind
me of your address.
Petra
>>
>
I am back to thinking that GD has it in its nature to vary in size according to various factors, in my case I believe that an inadequate supply of water was a major factor in producing small i.e. cherry sized fruit. There is however strong evidence that it is not as it was many years ago nor can one guarantee that all suppliers have identical strains.
My inclination is to go ahead with a trial using seed from several sources but growing them all under similar conditions. No doubt I can sell all that I grow but not all will qualify for the premium price that I get from cherry tomatoes. If I were forced to discard the larger fruit then I would of necessity grow only F1s but that is no guarantee of 100% top grade cherry tomatoes nor any continuity of supply of seed.
Meanwhile I am pleased to say that I saved a large quantity of seed from my last plants and processed them by fermentation to yield a quantity of clean seed, at a guess over 200 seeds, I won't want all of those so if anybody wants to do a swop I can oblige from my end. The parents were sold as plants in 2006 from a private GC.
Allan
I quote her reply
>Allan
yes I too have noticed that there seem to be a variety of GDels
around. Which is not surprising because this is a very old OP variety
which has been selected and reselected by various seed emporiums. Genetic
drift, as it is called, is a reality in seed saving. Selection to ward
against too much drift, is necessarily determined by the criteria of the
person who selects. A bit like searching for the original strain of
Kentucky Wonder bean in the USA - they are all similar, but quite different
in small details by now.
When I started gardening and grew the first GDels 27 years ago, they were
larger. As far as I remember, my first strain came from Sutton
Seeds. After a while I noticed that I had developed a bit of variation
within my 'strain' of seed which was saved and resaved from that original
batch. Got a freebie packet with a gardening mag two years ago and tried
those too, and those fruit were smaller. However - and that could explain
your differences in fruit size and flavour - we were still in drought when
the first fruits set. Later on mine were also a bit larger and the taste
was less concentrated compared to the sun-soaked early fruits. However none
were as large as the old strain, which was a two bit cherry tomato. The
new ones are also very dark red, the old ones were just a little more
orange red.
I can certainly let you have my strains of GDels to trial. Please remind
me of your address.
Petra
>>
>
I am back to thinking that GD has it in its nature to vary in size according to various factors, in my case I believe that an inadequate supply of water was a major factor in producing small i.e. cherry sized fruit. There is however strong evidence that it is not as it was many years ago nor can one guarantee that all suppliers have identical strains.
My inclination is to go ahead with a trial using seed from several sources but growing them all under similar conditions. No doubt I can sell all that I grow but not all will qualify for the premium price that I get from cherry tomatoes. If I were forced to discard the larger fruit then I would of necessity grow only F1s but that is no guarantee of 100% top grade cherry tomatoes nor any continuity of supply of seed.
Meanwhile I am pleased to say that I saved a large quantity of seed from my last plants and processed them by fermentation to yield a quantity of clean seed, at a guess over 200 seeds, I won't want all of those so if anybody wants to do a swop I can oblige from my end. The parents were sold as plants in 2006 from a private GC.
Allan
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Colin Miles
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I'm a bit late coming into this discussion, but also have grown GD for some 40 years and have to say that I haven't noticed any particular difference in the size of the fruit other than that caused by the amount of neglect the plants have suffered! That also determines whether or not the fruit will split and is usually the result of uneven watering and wider than 'normal' temperature variations. It is a relatively thin-skinned tomato.
As for the size of truss, I have always understood that if the weather is cloudy at the time of truss formation you will get a large number in the truss whilst with sunny warmer weather you get a small truss.
I tend to grow GD and Tropical Ruby. The latter is later than GD and a relatively thick-skinned plum with an excellent flavour which ripens well off the plant in Oct/Nov when GD is not at it's best. It is also, like GD, very prolific if allowed to grow in the greenhouse in the manner described by Johnboy. Only problem with it is a tendency to slight greenback in the greenhouse during high summer - not a problem later on.
As for the size of truss, I have always understood that if the weather is cloudy at the time of truss formation you will get a large number in the truss whilst with sunny warmer weather you get a small truss.
I tend to grow GD and Tropical Ruby. The latter is later than GD and a relatively thick-skinned plum with an excellent flavour which ripens well off the plant in Oct/Nov when GD is not at it's best. It is also, like GD, very prolific if allowed to grow in the greenhouse in the manner described by Johnboy. Only problem with it is a tendency to slight greenback in the greenhouse during high summer - not a problem later on.
Colin,
You don't say what seed you grow each year. Do you select from your crop or buy in fresh seed regularly, always or occasionally.
As I understand it anybody trying to keep a strain true will know the characteristics of the cultivar and renew stocks of seed by selecting donor plants that meet this specification so a lot will depend on how rigorously this has been done.
You don't say what seed you grow each year. Do you select from your crop or buy in fresh seed regularly, always or occasionally.
As I understand it anybody trying to keep a strain true will know the characteristics of the cultivar and renew stocks of seed by selecting donor plants that meet this specification so a lot will depend on how rigorously this has been done.