I've had some very interesting responses to a topic I filed on watering tomatoes, but not really the answers I was hoping for. So I'm appealling to the experts!
Do you grow your greenhouse/polytunnel tomatoes in containers, and if so, what type? And specifically how to you control the watering so that they don't get too much water, but not so little that they develop blossom end rot?
I've had a lot of trouble with blossom end rot on Olivade this year. They're grown in big pots. Obviously, watering needs vary according to temperature (and other factors). My original question was, will I get the watering about right if I top up the pots cautiously to the point where water just seeps into the saucers? Sometimes this means quite a lot of water, sometimes very little.
Interestingly, another current posting may provide a clue to the problem. It says that plum tomatoes (like Olivade) need more water than other types. I hit this problem last year when I grew Red Dabarao, another plum. But no B.E.R. problems with Gardeners Delight in the same greenhouse.
PS Great to see Allan saying that his Gardeners Delight tomatoes are delicious. I thought he didn't like this variety...
Attention Allan & Johnboy - tomato watering
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Geoff
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Wouldn't want to pre-empt their eminences as a mere youth of 59 but .....
Many years ago I experimented with ring culture before grobags were common and bought the big plastic rings for the job. Later I turned to grobags and periodically had ber and found watering a general pain. I then hit on the idea of using the rings on the grobags. I cut a hole in the grobags, scoop out a bit of the compost and feed the rings in as a tight fit, drop a support string into the bottom of the ring and fill up / plant up topping up to about an inch from the top from another grobag. If I put two plants in a bag I use about 4 bags to set up 3 if you see what I mean. I water them by looking at the state of the surface and at the moment that means filling them to the rim morning and evening. I have not had ber for years with a whole range of varieties including Roma plums. Not only has it solved ber it gives a simple support system as well. I was interested in I think JB saying on your original thread keep the foliage dry. I changed to doing that a few years ago and it makes the world of difference, much healthier plants.
Many years ago I experimented with ring culture before grobags were common and bought the big plastic rings for the job. Later I turned to grobags and periodically had ber and found watering a general pain. I then hit on the idea of using the rings on the grobags. I cut a hole in the grobags, scoop out a bit of the compost and feed the rings in as a tight fit, drop a support string into the bottom of the ring and fill up / plant up topping up to about an inch from the top from another grobag. If I put two plants in a bag I use about 4 bags to set up 3 if you see what I mean. I water them by looking at the state of the surface and at the moment that means filling them to the rim morning and evening. I have not had ber for years with a whole range of varieties including Roma plums. Not only has it solved ber it gives a simple support system as well. I was interested in I think JB saying on your original thread keep the foliage dry. I changed to doing that a few years ago and it makes the world of difference, much healthier plants.
Hi Geoff,
I grow direct into the ground in the greenhouse and I have a 11/2" pipe aprrox 6" into the ground and I have a 2 pint milk container that just fits the end and I slip that into the pipe and give approx 2pints of water containing comfrey concentrate diluted at ratio 10:1 every other watering. It is always made up with tap water but as I have mentioned I do not have any Chlorine in my mains water.
My Tomatoes are are in two rows offset at 2ft centres so actually quite close. The only time I got blossom end rot was with Money Maker which I have ever only grown the once.
I grow Gardeners Delight and Ailsa Craig and am very satisfied with both. And I too remember Allan saying that Grardeners Delight didn't even make his short list. Strange thing is Geoff that when I suggested Autumn King 2 Pelleted Carrot Seed that too was all wrong and would you believe they're now on the menu. So I will leave you to make you mind up on that!
I grow direct into the ground in the greenhouse and I have a 11/2" pipe aprrox 6" into the ground and I have a 2 pint milk container that just fits the end and I slip that into the pipe and give approx 2pints of water containing comfrey concentrate diluted at ratio 10:1 every other watering. It is always made up with tap water but as I have mentioned I do not have any Chlorine in my mains water.
My Tomatoes are are in two rows offset at 2ft centres so actually quite close. The only time I got blossom end rot was with Money Maker which I have ever only grown the once.
I grow Gardeners Delight and Ailsa Craig and am very satisfied with both. And I too remember Allan saying that Grardeners Delight didn't even make his short list. Strange thing is Geoff that when I suggested Autumn King 2 Pelleted Carrot Seed that too was all wrong and would you believe they're now on the menu. So I will leave you to make you mind up on that!
JB.
As usual Johnboy you are distorting my words. First Gardener's Delight. My objection to that AS I GREW IT THEN was that they came out as a mishmash of different sizes which was no good to me, compared with other varieties of cherry tomatoes. The results that I am getting now, some ten years later are totally different. The clue is that it is an open-pollinated variety, also that at that time there was not the strict control of genetic purity that exists today, so the plants today may well bear no resemblance to what went then. I do not know the source of seeds for the 2 plants that I bought this year, I bought them because I am an open-minded person and am pepared to re-assess things. I notice that one source of GD seeds describes theirs as "original breeders strain", that seems to reinforce my conclusions about my original trial.
As to the pelleted carrot seeds, I already had the pelleted seeds for trial. My use of them is not the same as the way you are using them as I have already explained. I don't want big carrots which are usually called ware and go for trivial prices, I don't want to thin them, I can't use a 4 foot bed on my sloping ground. Most will be eaten by ourselves. I shall also be using the other two varieties of seeds in polytunnel work and at different seasons for which Autumn King are unsuited, and specifically to get a mixture of sizes, not what you would use pelleted seeds for.
Incidentally I sowed half my row with carrots, half with Boltardy beet, the beet are through but not one carrot yet, how much longer must I wait?
Back to tomatoes. I grow mine, approximately 90 this year, in polytunnels, all on prepared holes, dig in some compost then put the tomato plant in. An initial watering with a can, then a drip line to the lot, about half an hour every other day, but when I get round to setting up the water computer they get up to 5 waterings per week, less later on. The feed goes through a diluter once a week. I read an authentic report that said that all these problems about soil sickness are of no real importance to the amateur grower, he can use the same soil until or if ever he gets serious problems, and as I don't normally grow tomatoes in the soil every year I will only worry when the yield becomes unsatisfactory. It may be that I am lucky with the planting positions in that they are somewhat random each time and a good chance every time that they are not in the same position as was used previously.
Incidentally, the first two GD are in large pots at home in my propogating greenhouse. There is definitely a problem with giving them the right amount of water so I shan't ever go that way with the main crop. The 7 grown from sideshoots are being trained normally but I notice that the bottom sideshoot has been missed so as an experiment I shall allow it to grow and see what I get.
I was musing about how long I have been involved in tomatoes, it's just over 60 years now, on and off, I must have pcked up some clues in all that time but I certainly don't claim to know it all yet!
Allan
As to the pelleted carrot seeds, I already had the pelleted seeds for trial. My use of them is not the same as the way you are using them as I have already explained. I don't want big carrots which are usually called ware and go for trivial prices, I don't want to thin them, I can't use a 4 foot bed on my sloping ground. Most will be eaten by ourselves. I shall also be using the other two varieties of seeds in polytunnel work and at different seasons for which Autumn King are unsuited, and specifically to get a mixture of sizes, not what you would use pelleted seeds for.
Incidentally I sowed half my row with carrots, half with Boltardy beet, the beet are through but not one carrot yet, how much longer must I wait?
Back to tomatoes. I grow mine, approximately 90 this year, in polytunnels, all on prepared holes, dig in some compost then put the tomato plant in. An initial watering with a can, then a drip line to the lot, about half an hour every other day, but when I get round to setting up the water computer they get up to 5 waterings per week, less later on. The feed goes through a diluter once a week. I read an authentic report that said that all these problems about soil sickness are of no real importance to the amateur grower, he can use the same soil until or if ever he gets serious problems, and as I don't normally grow tomatoes in the soil every year I will only worry when the yield becomes unsatisfactory. It may be that I am lucky with the planting positions in that they are somewhat random each time and a good chance every time that they are not in the same position as was used previously.
Incidentally, the first two GD are in large pots at home in my propogating greenhouse. There is definitely a problem with giving them the right amount of water so I shan't ever go that way with the main crop. The 7 grown from sideshoots are being trained normally but I notice that the bottom sideshoot has been missed so as an experiment I shall allow it to grow and see what I get.
I was musing about how long I have been involved in tomatoes, it's just over 60 years now, on and off, I must have pcked up some clues in all that time but I certainly don't claim to know it all yet!
Allan
Thanks, everyone - Allan, Johnboy and Geoff. My greenhouse is too far from the tap to put in drip lines or seep hoses, unfortunately (and, of course, we have a hosepipe ban in this part of the Sahara). I may go back to growing them in the soil next year - I haven't done that for 10 years or more, so hopefully there won't be a problem with disease. Gardeners Delight is performing spledidly this year and cropping very well. It's the plum tomatoes that are giving me the blossom end rot problem...
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Cider Boys
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I grow Gardeners Delight from seed every year and plant outside. I am very pleased with the results, both taste and yield.
When I was a youth and watered tomatoes in Glass Houses, I was told that the watering boosted the humidity and it was the warmth and humidity that aided ripening not direct sunlight. Is this so?
Barney
When I was a youth and watered tomatoes in Glass Houses, I was told that the watering boosted the humidity and it was the warmth and humidity that aided ripening not direct sunlight. Is this so?
Barney
Clearly, the plants need sunshine for photosynthesis, to reach their full potential. The ripening process is triggered by temperature, I understand, once the green fruit have reached the right stage of development. At the end of the season, many peope ripen off green tomatoes in drawers or cupboards, confirming that light isn't necessary at that stage. I'm less sure about the role of humidity. Some humidity is a good thing for getting the flowers to set, but too much can provide the conditions for grey mould or even the dreaded blight...
Are you talking about producing the red colour or optimising the flavours and sugars in the fruit?
The former is easy, bung them in a drawer or gas them with ethylene or raise the temperature a bit, the latter can only take place on the plant through sun shining on the leaves as it requires photosynthesis.
The former is easy, bung them in a drawer or gas them with ethylene or raise the temperature a bit, the latter can only take place on the plant through sun shining on the leaves as it requires photosynthesis.
I don`t know if this is any help as I do not have xx years experience but I have grown Incas plum toms ( in the greenhouse in growbags/ring culture, and outside as a sort of insurance which is paying dividends this year).I`m trying to find a meaty,full flavoured tom ,not to juicy for roasting,this year trying big boy,these have had loads of BER the last few days the Incas only one all season and in the only non-ring pot,same growing conditions/feeding.Any thoughts?Are some varieties more suceptable?
Hi Guys !
I've only got two contributions to your posting here Ken really, but I hope they'll be of some help.
I'm a mere KITTEN in respect of your lots' ages, but hey, since when has age come before beauty?
Firstly, it's a FANTASTIC year for Gardeners' Delight, this evening's harvest was two and a half pound in weight, and that was just the VERY ripe ones.... tomorrow holds a yield of more than double, or I'm a monkey's uncle.
Anyhow..... to my two points. Three if you include that I'm also going to mention Greenback as well...
I've grown Peter Surridge's suggestion of Plum Tomato this year, and it is JUST fantastic... it's called ROMANO, and it's so brilliant because it's a cordon variety. I could not be more pleased with it if I tried. I agree that plum toms need more water, which I only learned from experience this year, and one of my five Romanos has got BER. The trusses are full, large and just WOW ! And we harvested 9 kilos of the VERY ripest tonight. I can highly recommend this variety, and will certainly be growing more plants of this one next year, God willing.
Don't you find that Greenback strikes when you have TOO MUCH SUN on the actual fruits? I've had less of a problem this year with the varieties I've grown because I've shade-netted the outside of the roof.
I shall be very interested when Trousers buys me Terry Marshall's new Tomato Book just available for my birthday in the Autumn, to learn whether shading the outside or the inside of the greenhouse makes any remarkable 'difference'...!
And I can 'feel a debate coming on' !!
For now, I hope it's all going well for you.
Wellie
I've only got two contributions to your posting here Ken really, but I hope they'll be of some help.
I'm a mere KITTEN in respect of your lots' ages, but hey, since when has age come before beauty?
Firstly, it's a FANTASTIC year for Gardeners' Delight, this evening's harvest was two and a half pound in weight, and that was just the VERY ripe ones.... tomorrow holds a yield of more than double, or I'm a monkey's uncle.
Anyhow..... to my two points. Three if you include that I'm also going to mention Greenback as well...
I've grown Peter Surridge's suggestion of Plum Tomato this year, and it is JUST fantastic... it's called ROMANO, and it's so brilliant because it's a cordon variety. I could not be more pleased with it if I tried. I agree that plum toms need more water, which I only learned from experience this year, and one of my five Romanos has got BER. The trusses are full, large and just WOW ! And we harvested 9 kilos of the VERY ripest tonight. I can highly recommend this variety, and will certainly be growing more plants of this one next year, God willing.
Don't you find that Greenback strikes when you have TOO MUCH SUN on the actual fruits? I've had less of a problem this year with the varieties I've grown because I've shade-netted the outside of the roof.
I shall be very interested when Trousers buys me Terry Marshall's new Tomato Book just available for my birthday in the Autumn, to learn whether shading the outside or the inside of the greenhouse makes any remarkable 'difference'...!
And I can 'feel a debate coming on' !!
For now, I hope it's all going well for you.
Wellie
What sunshine is to flowers, smiles are to humanity. The good they do is inconceivable....
Thanks, Wellie and all. Apologies for the delay in replying but I've been away for a few days. The key certainly seems to be extra water for plum varieties and so far (crossed fingers) my plan of keeping the pots watered to the point where water just seeps out of the bottom seems to be working with no ill side affects. I agree: it's a fantastic year for Gardeners Delight for us, too. In fact, it would be for Olivade, too, if it wasn't for the BER problem on the early trusses. Later trusses seem OK, so hopefuylly I've cracked it....
Just an observation.....why is it ALWAYS the first tomatoes of the season to ripen that has the BER? Generally when once found I check all others (just in case) and find none of the younger toms have any BER.
This year I am growing Legend (first two had BER, but none since), Ferline (no BER) Gardeners delight (no BER) and various cherry toms (no BER). Previously I have had problems with Money maker so don't grow this...also it takes too long to ripen.
I have a theory that it is because the plants are often planted out 'after the first truss has set' per standard instructions, the roots are not that well developed and will be struggling to draw up enough water to satisfy the growing plant AND tomatoes.
What do other think?
This year I am growing Legend (first two had BER, but none since), Ferline (no BER) Gardeners delight (no BER) and various cherry toms (no BER). Previously I have had problems with Money maker so don't grow this...also it takes too long to ripen.
I have a theory that it is because the plants are often planted out 'after the first truss has set' per standard instructions, the roots are not that well developed and will be struggling to draw up enough water to satisfy the growing plant AND tomatoes.
What do other think?
I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne