Milk Prices

[Cider Boys]

Why all this fuss about moaning dairy farmers? No other industry gets subsidised, if farming is struggling why do land prices keep going up and up? When dairy farmers say they will go out of business due to low milk prices all it means is that they will swap to beef or arable production. You won't see any turning up at the Dole Office like anyone else that lives in the real world and faces true unemployment due to changing markets. They also still receive on average £28,000 of subsidies from us tax payers each year - no wonder they want to keep farming! I was made redundant 3 times in my working life due to changes in demand and market forces, I just had to find another job and get on with it. Having been educated in Agriculture and worked in associated industries it never ceases to amaze me how out of touch farmers are with the reality that the general public have to face. Planning permission is easy for them, agricultural buildings do not have to business rates, red diesel fuel is cheap and to cap it all they can pass on all their assets immune from any inheritance tax. The fact is there is too much milk production so prices go down like anything else in the free market. Did all the Greengrocers , small bakers, corner shops etc etc get help when supermarkets arrived and prices dropped? The problem is that the general public are so removed from the reality in the countryside they picture today's farmers as struggling peasants of years ago, if only they knew the facts they would not want their food prices to go up just so the farmers can continue over producing a commodity in an uneconomic way.

Rant over.

Barney

[robo]

Nice rant barney, i was in agreement with the farmers untill i read your post and gave it a bit of thought

[Geoff]

I wish we could get at the truth. I don't understand the dairy market and the yields of the different products but I'm sure comparing supermarkets selling semi-skimmed milk at 40p per litre with farmers being paid 20p per litre is simplistic and misleading.
I've done some Googling and not got far. I think raw milk is around 4% fat whereas semi-skimmed is 1.7% so how much do the processors get for what they take out? Double cream is almost 50% fat and I guess is about £3 per litre. If that is the only other product I think it means 100 litres of raw milk make 95 litres of semi-skimmed and 5 litres of double cream so a cost of £20 gives retail value of £53. We are told the supermarkets sell close to cost or below so does this mean the processors are taking a 260% mark up? It might be more if cheese at £7 kg is an even better business.
So are the farmers targeting the wrong group - are the processors the "bad" guys?

[oldherbaceous]

Evening Barney, my thoughts have been backwards and forwards on this subject for many years. Having worked on farms when i was a lad and still knowing many, very nice farming families, (including Alistair Cook's in-laws).
So i have always lent a little, on the side of the farmer, but so saying that, i also think it has gone to far when you are running a business that is completely reliant on subsidies. There also has been some bumper years for farmers, especially cereal growers and they soon forget about these large profits. I do miss all the small farms that were around here at one time, but a lot of these went under because they were not willing to diversify at all.

Something that does make me smile a little is, last year it seemed everytime you put the tele on, or opened a paper they were on about how are we going to feed the world. But this year, there is too much, milk, grain, lamb and sugarbeet about.....funny old world.

A very interesting topic, Barney, so thank you for taking the trouble start it.

[PLUMPUDDING]

I still think the farmer should get a fair proportion of the profit. He does all the hard work in the first place.

[Cider Boys]

The problem is that I do not think the general public know much about farming and when farmers are interviewed the questions are not very searching. The farming industry is alive and well otherwise agricultural land prices would drop and you won't find many farmers going bankrupt. The test is surely the higher and higher prices that land costs, so someone thinks its a good thing to invest in and someone has all the money to buy the land.

When farmers say they can not produce milk at these prices, then why can imported milk be produced more cheaply. The harsh facts are thousand of our fellows were employed in the motor industry, ship building, coal mining etc etc but others could produce the product more efficiently and its the same with dairy farming. A great pity I know, when I was young a farmer could have a fair living and raise a family with 30 cows and 80 acres was the average size of a dairy farm in Somerset but times have changed. When interviewed many farmers argue that they are the 5 th generation that have farmed their land but that is all well and good but does not give them the right to stay there by asking the general population to pay them more than the market price. Do you really think if there was a milk shortage the farmers would be campaigning to drop their prices?

I don't want to appear harsh but when I see the massive blockages at the local huge Morrison's distribution centre and Wiseman's milk processing company with tractors, heifers being led through supermarkets and then hear a local farmer being interviewed pleading poverty and knowing how extremely rich he is being able to employ all his family, convert some barns into conference centres, owning several holiday cottages and then see the struggling people in the town on minimum wages asked to pay more for their milk to help the asset rich farmers it galls me a little.

They have every right to protest, it is my gripe that the media do not put the searching questions to them due to the media being ill informed as with most of the public about the state of agriculture in our country.

No offence to many of my farming friends and relatives (including one of my sons) but I think that they have got it far better than most of us and when pushed they would never want to swap their life style for what the average Joe Public has, (that's why they have always moaned so much : ).

Barney

[Shallot Man]

Cider Boys. You have opened my eyes. Keep up the verbal.

[Cider Boys]

Well I'm off to the Mid-Somerset-Show tomorrow and am looking forward to meeting up with some of my old so called retired dairy farmer friends that I have known since school days. I suppose it's going to cost me a bit though, as I shall have to buy them all a drink of cider as I can't expect them to buy a round can I? Still it will be good to hear all about the latest tractors they have bought and what 4 wheel drive juggernauts they've driven to the show. I just hope they don't logon to the Kitchen Garden site and read my offerings. . I'll probably hear all about their woes and just agree and say "bloody townies should pay you more, how can townies expect you to run this new 4 wheel drive without paying you more in subsidies and milk prices" but I wont push it too hard as I do want a lift home They have always refered to me as Mr Controversial, I don't know why.

Best wishes

Barney

[oldherbaceous]

Have a great day, Barney.

[Elaine]

Thank you Barney, for this information. My husband was saying that there is more to this than we're being told.
He worked on farms from being a lad until his mid teens....he says he doesn't know any "poor" farmers. In fact, quite the opposite....two of the ones he worked for ended up millionaires and the others are certainly more well off financially then we are. Like you said, you don't see them driving around in £500 old bangers like we do.
Food for thought.

[Gerry]

Barney,

Have you ever thought of running for Pariament?

Regards,
Gerry.

[PLUMPUDDING]

Lots of people drive nice cars and appear wealthy and they are usually up to their ears in debt.

[Johnboy]

Hi Barney,
Coming from a very long line who have all been concerned with the farming world I find your rant to say the least intriguing.
It would be fine had you first checked your facts before giving yourself a rupture.
Your argument seems plausible but very far from hitting the truth.
In the last nine months over 280 dairy farms have ceased to exist and because of their losses most of the farmers are close to bankruptcy even with the exaggerated sums they have supposed to have received from the taxpayer.
I suspect that you dearly wanted to farm and have been unable to probably because the start-up costs.
In no way do I wish to cause any offence to you but really your rant is very far from the truth.
I hasten to add we are arable farmers with no livestock but prior to my sons taking over we were beef producers.
We also provide timber and I will not see a penny piece from anything I have grown and planted nor will my great grandson. Am I ranting? No because it is the way it is and always will be.
JB.

[Cider Boys]

Hello Johnboy

Nice to hear from you again, but I can assure you that I have not given myself a rupture, all I have done is point out some facts. In no way do I wish to upset any farmers, most are evenly balanced (with a chip on both shoulders) . All the facts that I have given are correct. Many dairy farmers have gone out of business since the war, Somerset was the chief dairy county in the UK closely followed by Cheshire in the 1950s and 1960s. Every farmer in Somerset was a small family farmer who milked cows but times have changed this is clearly undeniable. You may suggest that 280 dairy farmers have ceased to exist in the last 9 months but I will confidentially suggest that a larger farm will buy all the stock and the land because there is still money in dairy farming. I have pointed out that when market forces change and others loose their livelihood Joe Public has to accept it and just get on with it. The future for dairy farming must be bright hence the investment that I see all around me. The banks seem confident to lend when dairy farmers want to expand. At present there is a glitch with Russia and China but that will not last forever, the predictions are for an ever growing world-wide demand for dairy products and the UK farmers will have to compete for it. As I have stated before, my facts are that land prices (and farm buildings) have increased at a far greater rate of inflation than most other assets that I am aware of and expecting Joe Public to pay more than the market price is unreasonable. Many people (with no assets to sell) are loosing their jobs in the oil industry due to price reductions for their commodity, should they also ask Joe Public to pay more for their fuel to keep them from market forces too?

Best wishes

Barney

[Monika]

Just to add to the argument: Johnboy, you quote the fact that more than 280 dairy farms have gone out of business, BUT, certainly from experience around here, there may be far fewer farms but those which survive have greatly enlarged their herds and taken up the pastures of the others. I think it would be fairer to quote the number of dairy cattle rather than the number of farms. Unfortunately, this number is not easily available to the public.