Being old just threatened to get worse

[alan refail]

We have a saying in Welsh: "Henaint ni ddaw ei hunan" - Old age does come unaccompanied. And the older among us know what that means.

I never thought to find myself on the same side as the Daily Express until I read of their campaign against plans to tax pensioners benefits.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/332 ... pensioners

What are your views, old and young?

[Colin Miles]

The Daily Telegraph seems to be taking much the same point of view but as a pensioner I have to take issue with this. Don't you ever feel guilty when you go on a bus, flash your free bus pass then see youngsters having to fork out, or a young mother?

And the pensioners who use their fuel allowance to buy the Christmas presents. The benefits system is working properly.

And Alan, individual circumstances will always vary but in many ways we are the lucky generation.

[vegpatchmum]

Urm, so let me see it was going to cost too much money to means test all households in reciept of Child Benefit to find out all those whose joint income was over the reduced rate/none at all threshold, thereby making it a fair 'tax' across the board AND generating large sums in savings generated, and yet they're going to spend huge sums devising a system (which won't work) to means test the pensioners!

Well I wouldn't worry too much, the resultant hue and cry will no doubt bring about a speedy u-turn.

VPM
x

[glallotments]

I knew a mother who spent haer child benefit buying crates of wine from a wine club that she was a member of - I suppose there will always be issues with universal benefits. Not sure why age related ones are any different.

To be honest I would rather more money go to the ones who are really struggling on a basic pension or basic benefit due to ill health. I honestly don't know how they mansge to pay just their monthly bills let alone anything else.

[farmer jon]

without this thread descending into a full blown political debate, I would much sooner see the pensioners benefits & pension untouched. they are the ones who have worked all their lives & contributed a great deal to society. a free bus pass means they can get get out & keep active. as for the guilt about using the free bus pass when youngsters have to pay then certainly not.....they probably have the latest i phone/blackberry/mp4 etc constantly welded to them! they can afford these so they can afford to pay. as do the rest of the workshy,"on the club " benefit harvesters. how many of these would fight for their country today ?
btw , I am 47 ,before anyone asks...lol..

[FelixLeiter]

I don't see that any pensioner who owns and runs a car should be entitled to a bus pass. This is an opinion shared by my father, a car owner himself who has never used his pass at 83. I am partially sighted which qualifies me for a bus pass, yet I work full time and can afford my ticket. I score drugs with the money I save.

[Johnboy]

As a pensioner of quite a few years I have never had a bus pass because it would be of no use to me. No bloody buses!
My circumstances are that my entire old aged pension disappears in taxation. I am entitled to a free television licence but I still pay for mine.
I do not cost the state anything that I have not contributed to over my working life.
I am still working many many years after the official retirement age and doing many more hours than the prescribed working week.
BUT there are so many pensioners that really do need assistance that to take anything away from them would be very very wrong.
As VPM says it would cost more to Means Test everybody than they would gain.
Just leave it alone!
People who rob their grandmothers are frowned on heavily by society and quite frankly this set of government suggestions should be treated accordingly.
JB.

[glallotments]

ly the rest of the workshy,"on the club " benefit harvesters. ..

I have a close relative who is too ill to work but worked hard for a small salary up until a couple of years ago when she became ill. I'm afraid that it is generalisations like this that makes her feel bad about herself to the extent that her illness has worsened and now she will hardly leave the house. I wonder if people who are very vocal in denouncing anyone on benefit as scroungers realise just how much harm they do and upset they cause to people who would do anything to be fit enough not to need benefit. And I include various goverbment ministers in with this who ought to know better. This will be my only comment on this matter as to be honest I find it too upsetting.

[Westi]

Living in the next suburb to one the most densely populated area of older people in Europe (Highcliffe on Sea) I share public transport with these and sometimes I am the only one on the bus that actually pays.

It didn't bother me much until I was chatting with some ladies at my bus stop who pointed that they leave their very posh new cars in the garage in their very posh bungalows that are well out of reach of the average person let alone pensioner and jump on the bus with their free bus pass. Like I said doesn't bother me much, but it bothers these genuine users who really benefit and have no alternative transport and they are all for means testing.

Westi

[Shallot Man]

I was under the impression that the government paid a set fee based on the local population to the bus company's, regardless how many used the service, but then I could be wrong.

[Johnboy]

Hi Westi,
I feel that probably one way of sorting the wheat from the chaff, as it were, would be for pensioners who actually still pay income tax on unearned income or earned income not to have the perks of those who are in hardship. This would mean that before a bus pass is issued by a local authority the authority would have the right to ask if the person applying pays tax and anybody who pays tax would be disqualified. That is a form of means test without having to involve a fresh influx of civil servants.
The private pensions paid in the past should mean that those who could afford to pay for a pension are not, as a general rule, in need of any state hand-outs and that includes me.
You would think that if this were the case there would be more for those in need but knowing governments, whoever they are, I have my doubts.
JB.

[Colin Miles]

JB - despite what you said initially about means tests your last post indicates that something needs to be done. So either the government does it or is there a possibility that those who don't need the free bus passes, the Christmas fuel allowance, etc., would voluntarily give these up? A tricky one. Would the money - how could the money actually go to those in need? I try to salve my conscience my trying to make sure that the money is recycled to my children and grandchildren who I think need help, but should the money go to other OAP's who need help? Or do we say 'God helps those who help themselves'?

[PLUMPUDDING]

I've worked all my life, but only get a small works pension plus the state pension, so I find the free bus pass very useful and the winter fuel allowance a great help, also free prescriptions are a major saving. It shouldn't be too difficult to see how much income people have from the tax they pay and then work out who is eligible for the winter fuel payment. Perhaps anyone with an income over £25,000 a year doesn't need the fuel allowance.

I would however not mind if pensioners had to pay a nominal amount towards bus travel and prescriptions, of perhaps £1, and I don't see why anyone should get free TV. licences.

If they want to pick on someone other than OAPs another saving could be to only pay child benefit for the first child which would save vast amounts of money and would discourage people from breeding just to get benefits.