Is there a place for pesticides on the plot?

[KG Steve]

Hi all, This month in KG we will be discussing whether there is a place for pesticides on the plot or in the veg garden and we'd love to have your views.

Those of us who have been gardening for some time will all have horror stories about how dangerous garden chemicals used to be 30-40 years ago. I used to work in commercial glasshouses in the 70s and 80s and looking back can't belive what I was asked to use and how lax the precautions were, but things are generally very different now. Responsible modern growers have very strict rules about these things.

So what do you think? Should we go further and ban all chemicals on food crops - or all garden chemicals full stop? Or have things gone too far so that you find yourself with few defences against the pests and diseases which decimate our crops most years?

We'd love to know and as as always we'll publish as many of your responses as possible in the June issue of KG.

I'm off now to sow some seeds and make the most of this beautiful evening!

[Colin Miles]

Plants produce pesticides. What will they think if we try to stop them?

[peter]

A total ban, no.

What is needed is that difficult to quantify item, common sense.
We don't want stuff that kills everything, persists or is dangerous.
But all pesticides are toxic in some way or other to varying types of life.

We want stuff that does what it says on the label and nothing else. We want to be able to deal with a pest before it overwhelms our crops.

Anything that is not denatured when used, either by its action on the pest, or, by some other natural / expected reaction in the environment should be banned. e.g. Aminopyralid. DDT.

What is also a need is that pesticides should not be available to the illiterate, the careless or the inconsiderate, as what is safe becomes a problem when sprayed at double-dose on a windy day with fairy liqued added on a crop being harvested the next day.


That's the generalities, the specifics are more difficult.

[Kleftiwallah]

"I used to work in commercial glasshouses in the 70s and 80s and looking back can't belive what I was asked to use and how lax the precautions were".

I think it is a case of not knowing the potential health hazzards involded also a touch of 'familiarity breeds contempt'.

I do use 'chemicals' but only as a last resort when I'm 'up against it'.

Cheers, Tony.

[Shallot Man]

peter. hear hear.

[Colin Miles]

Sorry if I sounded a bit facetious with my first comment, but what is a pesticide? Indeed, what is a chemical? Watched the bonobos chewing willow - must get their aspirin that way. Believe a bit of aspirin in a vase of flowers does them good - or maybe that is hearsay. But aspirin, apart from being a miracle drug, can cause problems. But I am rambling.

[Tony Hague]

I think that the current trend is right; the pesticides (I assume you include insecticides, fungicides and weedkillers in this) available for amateur use should be quite limited.

However carefully you follow the instructions on the pack when mixing up a spray, the amateur gardener has no real means of applying a controlled dosage, and whatever you tell them many will spray until it runs off, which is usually a huge overapplication. If you see the tiny amount of glyphosate, for example, that is needed to achieve a good weed kill you may be surprised.

We are also only amateur gardeners. It may be depressing to have cabbages eaten by catterpilars, but it is not the end of the world, justifying any and all countermeasures. We won't starve. There is always the supermarket !

[Geoff]

Yes there is a place for pesticides (in fact all ****icides) on the plot if you want there to be. Don't be pressurised into thinking you are poisoning the kids, everything available to the amateur grower is safe if used correctly.

Personally I use very little because either I don't find I need to or I decide the cost is too great for the end.

Restricting the discussion to pesticides. All I use regularly are the new safe slug pellets and I wouldn't be without them. I occasionally spray for Gooseberry Sawfly. I have sprayed for aphids and caterpillars but now usually use fingers.

If you widen the discussion, I spray against blight and I use weedkillers (but not on the vegetable plot which is all hand weeded).

[glallotments]

This is a difficult one - I would really only resort to using a pesticide as a last resort. I use an insecticide on my houseplants to control greenfly. No other insect can be harmed by this and I can hardly rely on greenfly eating predators indoors.

I would reluctantly use a pesticide as a last resort if my crops were being totally devastated and other methods such as insect netting were failing for instance I would use a soft soap solution to control whitefly.

Also we have used weedkiller on the plot but only ever one that is a contact spray which is not persistent.

In effect I wouldn't have a total ban but would limit the availability of pesticides to those which have been thoroughly tested and have no detrimental effect on anything other than what they are being used to control. Maybe difficult to achieve!

[Trixie74]

A total ban - I'm not so sure. As a new allotmenteer we managed with no pesticides last year. With the exception of a drop of washing up liquid in spray for the aphids on the sage (if that counts at all). It's either naivety or beginners luck - I guess we'll see this year.

Though I do have concerns about the wider implication of chemical warfare on commercially grown crops on wildlife, in particular bees which have seen a drastic decline in recent years.

http://www.nealsyardremedies.com/bee-lovely-petition

[richard p]

we didnt use any chemicals in the garden when the kids were tiny.... was fussy on household chemicals aswell, now they are older we aint as fussy as we were but still only use a bit of weedkiller on bindweed and maybe a few slug pellets..... and if theres slug pellets about the chickens dont get to roam free.

[Nature's Babe]

I love my bees and use no pesticides, particularly neonicotinoids have been implicated in colony collapse and pesticides have been shown to have othrer strange side effects on some bees like losing their homing instinct.
Colonies are under threat and the bees do us a great service in pollinating its free and would cost billions to replace by hand pollination so I prefer to be safe and use none. It appears that the cumulative effects of lots of different pesticides proves too much.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/h2062787g74188v1/

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1603/0 ... 101.6.1743

In my experience you need to grit your teeth at first but after a year or two with no pesticides nature strikes a good balance of predator and pests
the only problem i get is slugs when its wet for long periods and using organic pellets or sheep wool round the beds that is not a problem.

[Marigold]

Here in Ireland the farmers use weedkillers freely, on hedges and verges. I did find the names of what they used on a farming forum andn they are all banned in the UK. They turn the foliage a withered brown.. dreadful sight. And with no thought for the wild life.

Last year I made them not use it near my garden. The farmer opined my garden has many weeds.. true but better ways to deal with them than sprays.

I will use slug pellets sparingly in need, as that problem is appalling here in this damp and boggy place.

[sally wright]

Dear All,
I think that there is a case for using pesticides on the plot.
That said the case rests on your ethics, how much growing space you have and your cash flow.
For instance Person A is wealthy, he has a large garden and he wants a lettuce for his tea every day during summer. So he needs 100 lettuces. He does not like using pesticides but he knows that he has a lot of slugs so he plants 1000 lettuces knowing that the slugs will eat most of them but there will be enough left for him to have his lettuce.
Person B is poor however, he has not got a large garden and would like a lettuce each day for his tea as well. He has space for only 100 lettuces and he knows he has to keep them safe from slugs. He knows that if he does nothing there will be only 10 lettuces and he will have to buy the other 90 he needs to eat. A tub of slug pellets is only £3 and will protect the lettuces and ensure that he can have a lettuce each day. Lettuces are £1 each in the greengrocers but he cannot afford the £90 it would cost to get lettuce from the greengrocers so he uses slug pellets.
I realise that this is a simplistic example but I think it can highlight the decisions that need to be taken when thinking about using a pesticide in the domestic situation.
Regards Sally Wright

[Nature's Babe]

There are organic slug pellets which are harmless to birds which might eat a slug, not expensive if u use economically, i put a few on an old lettuce leaf and catch them just before planting out tender stuff.