Kitchen Garden Forum

Ideally we should leave the allotment or growing area better than we found it, so why are many new allotment holders faced with a weedy unkempt difficult plot ? The answer might be to form an allotment association and as well as the benefits like group members getting discounted seeds or sharing some equipment, etc if it is made clear they also have responsibilities and new gardeners are asked to sign an agreement that when they no longer need the plot they will be expected to leave it in good order. If they fail to do that professionals will clear plot and the person who rented it will be billed. That way the culprit gets the work or the bill, and if new gardeners receive the plot in good order, surely they will be more likely to keep it so. Allowing it to happen in the first gives the message that weedy plots are acceptable, surely new gardeners deserve a better start? Weedy plots are an annoyance to other plot holders when they seed. Also a mentoring scheme for beginners from more experienced members is worth consideration, rather than leaving them to flounder and fail?

This is hardly sensible. The reason why a site becoming weedy is that the tenant has given up for some reason or other. Often it is because they have bitten off more than they can chew. But it can be for a perfectly good reason, like ill-health, whereby the hope is that on recovery the plot will be restored - but it doesn't happen. Are you really going to penalise someone for that? And the idea of billing someone? Who is going to police that? And a sure way of putting people off to start with.

No, of course I realise it can be a temporary problem but if they are also a social and friendly group they would know that someone is not well surely and make allowances or help out? A neglected and weedy plot may put people off before they can get started and enjoy it and can cause a lot of problems for ajacent plot holders. In one area I lived all the allotments were badly neglected and no one bothered to try because it was too daunting. In another area with more active administration and non tolerance of real neglect they were thriving and people helped out if someone was temporarily
unable to cope due to illness. It was just a suggestion from what I observed. When so many folk are on the waiting lists surely it makes sense not to condone long term neglect? I have a good size garden so luckily I don't have those problems now.

NB, virtually all of the plots available now in areas with established sites are vacated because the previous tenant was evicted for failing to cultivate, it, or the council is desperately making available plots that were left for decades to try and clear waiting lists.

Some places are managing the 12 or more want in the parish with no provision and usually that means a grass or cultivated field with a community pulling together.
My council spent over £10,000 to bring an abandoned site back into use and that involved big tractor mounted; brush cutters, ploughs, rotovators and weedsprayers.
To clear one plot based in that is £200, I reckon it would be much more.

Associations, well ours has been around for decades, we only get about 100 of the near 1000 plotholders in the town joining and about 1 per year becoming actively involved with running the association.

The eviction process takes time, you have to be fair and take circumstances into account, he who has a hip replacement, or breaks his wrist for example.

My opposite neighbour is a bit slash-b-burn with dog daisies all over his plot mixed with couch and spaces cleared for specific crops, it looks a little as I imagine your garden(except the couch), stuff mixed and dotted around. He produces a lot and wins show prizes, buts strictly he could be eased out for untidiness.

Unless you spend an hour or two every week inspecting every plot and hassle people over individual weeds, becoming the weed police, then allowing for nature spots, weed mulches, green manure, holidays, etc then it takes time for it to become apparent that a plot is being neglected.
Then you have to make contact, give a verbal warning, leave it for a reasonable time to change before the council gives notice with another grace period, followed by "you're off".

As for some of the reactions I get when chasing people up over their untouched plots, well the woman who was allergic to sunlight sticks in my memory, took three years for the realisation to hit her that siting a log for her child to sit on for the ten minutes a month they spent at the site.on cloudy days did not constitute "cultivation".

I both try to give open advice (green & chemical) with pros & cons, plus make introductions to old boys & girls on site already, people often don't want it, they have ideas, sometimes from tv and what do I or the plotholders of thirty years standing know that Monty Don didn't tell them......

Sadly the world or approach you describe is idealistic, expensive and, given modern attitudes to "my rights" a tad naive. While rarely it is as you write, I wish it were all the time, as it would make my site agent job a lot easier, as well as newbies having a better start.

I've let three clean starts and only one of those was someone cutting back before age related infirmities really affected them, the others were sadly, a sudden death and a move hundreds of miles away.

I'm in a rugby club as well with over 1500 members, nine of us turned up for a working party to do repairs an etc, pretty much the same group as turned up at the last four working parties and my wife assures me I'm not afflicted by BO or such a miserable old g** that people avoid me.

Peter, if they signed an agreement when taking on the allotment would it still take that long to evict them ? Alternatively people who rent houses sometimes pay a deposit returnable if the property is looked after and kept in reasonable condition when they move out, would that idea be feasable ? OK I may not have had an allotment for a while, and you may call me naive if you like, but I prefer to be optimistic and think some problems can be overcome given time thought and application for the benefit of all My intention was just to offer ideas for discussion as it appears to be quite a common problem on some allotments, yours included, and although I may not be able to suggest a suitable way to solve this problem, discussion might encourage someone else to come up with better suggestions,( if they are not afraid of being called naive.) Sometimes it takes legislation but change is the norm, I don't see such things as immutable.
I am reminded of the old saying....where there is a will - there is a way.

How do you know what state the allotment was in when a tenant (who appears neglecful) took it over? Many allotments were neglected for years and years and are extremely weed affected. I have been asked to kill of the weeds with weedkiller then rotavate allotments and they look prestine for a potential tenant but after a couple of weeks they are covered in weeds providing an everlasting ongoing battle. I don't know what the answer is, some ground is just plain weedy due to neglect from decades ago.

Barney

When I read the initial post my first thought was: what obvious good ideas. My second thought was: clearly from someone who has never run a self-administered allotment site.

I agree 100% with Peter who is currently at the "soil-person interface". I administered a site of 120 full allotments for ten years up till fleeing to the Celtic fringe in 2000. Everything Peter says is spot-on. It was hard enough to evict tenants who didn't want to leave (I was more than once threatened with physical violence), let alone pursuing them to pay for plot reinstatement.

I fear that your suggestions, NB, while well-intentioned, are no more realisable than Cameron's "Big Society".

Certainly they all sign an agreement, how else can people be charged rent?

If someone took a plot and started fly tipping they'd be off quick, but everything else has to follow a defined process. Warnings, time to act on warnings, unless its a flagrant abuse it takes time and time let's weeds grow.


Allotments were in decline, sites closing etc.
Councils kept them ticking over, but consolidated & closed empty sites, even sold when they got an offer and or could get away with it.

Now they're popular again and councils are learning that they can be harsher, remember last years media excitement about the old boy evicted for not cultivating?
Expect to see more stories like that in the future and the automatic sympathy of the media won't be for the council and frustrated prospective plotholders.

Barney, one plot in my town was turned into an osier bed by a basketweaver, imagine it now twenty years after she quit and its never been let again. Osier bed = willows.

Sorry for monopolising the thread but you can justly accuse me of being an allotment activist.

On the site I administer for my town council I've stood in the plot with the prospective tenant and chatted about it, gardening, their experience, methods, time needed, etc and set an expectation of steady progress rather than a blitz resulting in a slipped disc. It's what any agent/manager/secretary should do.

Cider Boys wrote:How do you know what state the allotment was in when a tenant (who appears neglecful) took it over? Many allotments were neglected for years and years and are extremely weed affected. I have been asked to kill of the weeds with weedkiller then rotavate allotments and they look prestine for a potential tenant but after a couple of weeks they are covered in weeds providing an everlasting ongoing battle. I don't know what the answer is, some ground is just plain weedy due to neglect from decades ago.

Barney

Evening Peter, i think you should be very proud of what you have achieved, regarding your input on your allotment site.
All sites could do with someonr like yourself.

On the lines of keeping allotments tended, a returnable deposit after a year might help people to think twice about taking one on, but that would be a good thing if there is a waiting list.
Not sure about the legalities, though.

It is remarkable how quickly plots go to seed and how much effort it takes to get them back to a really good order.
On the site where my space is, there are a few (it's 3 or 4) untended spaces.
Apparently we also have a waiting list.

One year, several years ago, the rep asked for volunteers to help clear a couple of spaces. Several of us went along. I doubt any of us had benefited from similar treatment (I certainly didn't) but everyone there was happy to contribute.

However, unless you take a sizeable deposit, people will postpone handing back their plots and the weeds take over. I don't want people priced out of allotments, even if the intentions are good.

Is it supposed to be easy?

Ciderboys is right about weeds being persistent, my own garden was untended for twenty years before we took it on, if I dug my soil every time I turned it over twenty years worth of seeds would come up to a depth where they could germinate and thrive. By mulching with compost, topped with straw and grass clippings etc I am burying and smothering those seeds which saves me a lot of work. As Barney says some plots are extremely weed affected, weed seeds are still there underneath but managed by suppression they do not cause the same problems. I know every garden or plot is different but on clay and with an underlying big weed seed problem it works well for me and might for other long neglected plots.

I have to agree with everything that has been said. Working a garden is far easier than an allotment, you can pop out any free 5 mins you have to potter but the allotment you have to make real effort to get up and go.

With our council managed plots, the new tenant is given 3 months to actively cultivate it and then it takes another 3 months to evict and write to prospective new plotholders. In that time the plot will quickly become over-grown. Eviction can be a long drawn out process with warnings first. I have yet to meet any new plotholder that has taken over a plot in pristine condition. Isn't that half the fun of allotmenteering, without the initial hard work where is the satisfaction.

Beryl.

Re neglected plots. Strim weeds then add a mulch of cardboard on top to exclude light and held down with stones this would suppress weeds while you are waiting for eviction, most supermarkets have plenty of boxes and pay for their removal. Then after several months once you have freed the plot a quick bonfire or add the cardboard to compost, and it's sorted, you could hand over a plot clear of annual weeds, with improved soil, and perrennial weeds left that regenerate would be more easily seen and removed.

NB Are you suggesting this is done while the plotholder is still legally the tenant? if so then there with would uproar. No one without due authority should venture on another plot. In our case it would be the council I can't speak for privately managed sites.

Beryl.