Kitchen Garden Forum

I am trying a raised bed in my veggie plot this year. All the guides say that one can plant vegetables closer than one would in open ground. But how much closer?

Is there a guide or table somewhere on the 'net that lists planting densities in raised beds for various vegetables?

Thanks,

Martin.

Hi Martin. Only up to a point. I'm thinking as I write, and I can see this being a controversial topic. On one level, it can be argued that all plants need a certain amount of light and water for optimum yield from any given space, and those requirtements vary from one veg to another. There's a lot of scientific advice on that in 'Know & Grow Vegetables' from the National Vegetable Research Station if you can lay your hands on a copy (though some will say it was written for the market garden trade, and amateur gardening is different). There's also an American book, Square Foot Gardening, which advocates very dense planting. I found the first edition of that book quite interesting and helpful; I later bought the second edition as a present for my daughter, and thought the author had got a bit carried away with his ideas. But perhaps that's just me! One thing I can quote, using Sq Ft Gardening ideas: I put 24 Cobra climbing French beans in a double row across a 4ft bed, and got 585 beans from them , in a space of 1ft x 4ft. If you've got somewhere such as a cold fame or cool greenhouse for raising young plants, you can garden very intensively with raised beds - putting new young plants in as soon as a crop has finished. Maybe in the end it comes down to an equation of how much time you have versus how much space.

Hi Ken,
I agree with what you say but only up to a point. The point being is what you are expecting from the bed. Certainly the normal distances are something that should be adhered to but when you are short of space it is what you decide that counts. Nobody would say you cannot grow by reducing the planting distances only don't expect to get what you see on the packet and if you do not get even the results you are expecting then you will have learned by this and not to repeat the same thing again.
Lets face it Ken it is only by trial and error that the given standards evolved over the last couple of centuries.
JB.

I guess whether they can be planted closer in a raised bed than on the flat depends on what spacings you use on the flat ... I found a useful chart in a Sakata commercial seed catalogue, which gave planting densities that were on the whole rather higher than domestic seed packets do. Perhaps the domestic planting guidelines make some assumptions about the increased amount of shading, less intensive fertiliser regime, ... ?

Ken,

Thanks for the "Square Foot Gardening" tip. I found a number of websites that document this approach, all of which are useful. Particularly this one:

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/organicgardening/gh_sqft.php

Martin.

Hi Tony,
Could you please give some examples of The Sakata Seed Co higher sowing/planting densities? Intrigued!
JB.

High density planting here, sides of beds used no boxes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 864235132#

In raised beds you dont need paths between rows as long as you can reach into the middle, this saves compaction, check out this video.

Glad the mention of Square Foot Gardening was helpful. I also agree entirely with Johnboy, that it is what you expect from your beds that matters. We only grow for the two of us these days, and find 8 4x4 beds very productive. But I've tended to move away from some of the concepts in the Sq Ft book. It's great for salads - 4 Little Gems in one sq ft, spring onions in another, some cut -and-come again leaves in another, beetroot, baby carrots, etc, all in one bed. But we give a whole bed over to broad beans for instance, and another to French beans - a row of the climbing type at the back, and dwarf beans in front. And in the winter we have one bed all red Russian kale (but planted closer than generally recommended for continuous supply of young leaves), plus a bed for leeks and another for parsnips, and various winter salady things under cloches. And then, beyond that, we've had to find space elsewhere in the garden for growing early potatoes, outdoor tomatoes, courgettes and winter squash on the flat...

Johnboy wrote:Hi Tony,
Could you please give some examples of The Sakata Seed Co higher sowing/planting densities? Intrigued!
JB.

I haven't before actually done a hard comparison, it was just a general impression I got, but since I have my box of seed packets and the Sakata list here:

Onions from seed, final spacing : my packets 30x10cm = 33 per sq metre, Sakata 65 per sq m
Beetroot: my packets 30x8cm = 42 per sq m and 30x10cm = 33 per sq metre, Sakata 55-120 per sq metre depending on size required

I've converted to plants per square metre for easy comparison.
It is similar for other roots. Others are less marked (summer cabbage eg is 7 per sq m -vs- 8 per square metre). The oddity is sweetcorn, which is much closer on the domestic seed packet than the commercial, but I guess that is to ensure better pollination when planted on the smaller scale.

This comparison between packets aimed at the amateur market v. the professional market rings a bell with me. I'm quoting from memory now, but I'm sure that in 'Know & Grow Vegetables' mentioned above they say professional growers do plant more closely. They rekon amateurs want to grow big, perfect speciments, whereas the professionals are focused on the maximum saleable yield per square metre. Some examples from the book - spaces between rows x spaces within the rows, in inches - beetroot main crop 12 x 1; carrots maincrop 6 x 1; leeks 12 x 6; onions from sets 10 x2; parsnips large roote varieties 12 x 6; bush tomatoes 19 x 19, and so on. Have to confess-haven't been out to the potting shed to see how those compare with thre recommendations on the packets I have....

Thank you Tony for the examples. It seems hard to reconcile them but intriguing never the less.
JB.

Hi Ken,
I think that spacing is something that comes with experience. After a few years gardening and you have noted how things grow for you on your plot you can see how things will turn out. Sadly those new to gardening are really best to follow the instructions on the packet and in time they will be able to gather their own information.
I know that we have many people new to gardening reading avidly the threads on this forum and my advice to them is to stick to the planting instructions on the packet until you really get the hang of things and after that the world is your oyster and experiments are the greatest thing in the world of gardening but do get to know what you plot is capable of before you start otherwise you have nothing for comparison.
JB.

Nature's Babe wrote:High density planting here, sides of beds used no boxes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 864235132#

In raised beds you dont need paths between rows as long as you can reach into the middle, this saves compaction, check out this video.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching that, thank you very much for posting

With some vegetables with an upright growth habit there is a lot of scope for much closer plantings than usually recommended especially where the young plants can give a welcome early crop of baby veg. Carrots and beetroot for example do surprisingly well when grown closely and baby carrots or beetroot are a real treat. There will be lot of competition between the roots so plenty of water and nutrients are needed at all times. Onions and leeks also do well like this and thin pencil leeks are one of the kitchen lady's (aka DW) favourite vegetables.

John

One idea about raised beds is that the plants should be spaced so that the leaves just touch when they are mature, thus shading the dround and so preventing weed germination. I think this is a bit fanciful, judging by my own experience, as only complete darkness stops weed germination.

However, as the main idea of beds is that you don't tread on them, the soil beneath the surface is less compacted, allowing the roots of plants to grow deeper quicker. [I've found this to be the case with tomatoes since I started using raised beds.] So there's more access to nutrients and moisture and as a result you can space plants more closely together. This works especially well with the no-dig method, provided the beds are well prepared initially.