Hi all,
Got down to digging the allotment at the weekend, found to be full of horse tails and couch grass, any tips on eradication!
I am going to arange the space in to deep beds and hopefully cover what i donot dig with cardboard coverd by the dug up weeds and general rubbish untill i can dig it all over.
I have been told the weak looking rasberry canes are autumn fruting varirty, any tips on producing good fruits, the plot has not been activly managed for at least three years.
Phil
horsetail and couch grass
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
Hello Phil
I seem to remember that Johnboy had a good method for getting rid of horsetail which can be a real pain to eradicate. It was on the old forum and the use of paraquat (or diquat?) comes to mind - I expect he'll pick up on this one soon and remind us of the details.
As for your autumn raspberries, the canes on these can be cut down to nearly ground level now and should start growing back soon to give you a crop later this year. They have a rather spreading habit so go along the row with a spade and be quite ruthless in restricting the width to about 18in - get rid of everything outside this. Finally give a good feed of something that is high in potash.
John
PS Raspberries are shallow rooting and suffer a bit in competition with the weeds so try to keep the bed weed free as best you can.
I seem to remember that Johnboy had a good method for getting rid of horsetail which can be a real pain to eradicate. It was on the old forum and the use of paraquat (or diquat?) comes to mind - I expect he'll pick up on this one soon and remind us of the details.
As for your autumn raspberries, the canes on these can be cut down to nearly ground level now and should start growing back soon to give you a crop later this year. They have a rather spreading habit so go along the row with a spade and be quite ruthless in restricting the width to about 18in - get rid of everything outside this. Finally give a good feed of something that is high in potash.
John
PS Raspberries are shallow rooting and suffer a bit in competition with the weeds so try to keep the bed weed free as best you can.
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flan
I used to have a plot that was riddled with horsetail. Having tried to get rid of it (and watched others doing the same by various methods) I plumped for peaceful co-existence. After all it is so deep rooted it doesn't compete for water or nutrients (in fact I could hoe it off to water the soil, as the water would continue to be drawn from way down after the head had been chopped off). Where I wasn't using the soil for a bit I let it grow, as when I hoed it off I often found a nice moist friable soil. Concentrate on keeping it down where you have sown seeds as it will soon crowd them out, but once the plants get growing it seems to lose vigour. I used to compost it as the infestation couldn't be any worse, and being deep rooted it probably brings up some useful minerals. However it does like wet conditions, so you may have to deal with waterlogging, which I did by applying lots of compost. After three years of composting the problem didn't seem so bad.
So make friends with your horsetail!
Couch grass is not so bad - I cleared another plot of a pretty bad infestation by initially digging and removing all pieces I found, then continuing to do so as I cultivated the plot. It is persistent but as far as I know it isn't deep rooted, so can be reduced significantly. Do watch out for it reinfesting from grass paths etc. An organic market gardener I once met swore by rotavating it, waiting til the regrowth is 2 or 3 inches high, then rotavating again. Apparently at that point it has used all the reserves in the roots, but not built new ones up.
So make friends with your horsetail!
Couch grass is not so bad - I cleared another plot of a pretty bad infestation by initially digging and removing all pieces I found, then continuing to do so as I cultivated the plot. It is persistent but as far as I know it isn't deep rooted, so can be reduced significantly. Do watch out for it reinfesting from grass paths etc. An organic market gardener I once met swore by rotavating it, waiting til the regrowth is 2 or 3 inches high, then rotavating again. Apparently at that point it has used all the reserves in the roots, but not built new ones up.
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pigletwillie
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I agree with flan on the Mares tail, it is so deep rooted that you will be unlikely to eradicate it. I also just continuously hoe it off which knocks back its vigour but it never completely goes. Thankfully only the back third of one plot is infected.
With couch, the stuff can be wiped out and there are various ways. The easiest (and the way I did it) was to spray with glysophate when it really started growing in spring. That cleared it completly. You can dig it out but if you miss a bit it will grow back and spread and you can guarantee that it will be right amongst a crop so you cant touch it until after harvest by which time it will be everywhere again. After being dug up any bits also seem to stay dormant for a few weeks before sprouting back up, fooling you into thinking that it has gone.
With couch, the stuff can be wiped out and there are various ways. The easiest (and the way I did it) was to spray with glysophate when it really started growing in spring. That cleared it completly. You can dig it out but if you miss a bit it will grow back and spread and you can guarantee that it will be right amongst a crop so you cant touch it until after harvest by which time it will be everywhere again. After being dug up any bits also seem to stay dormant for a few weeks before sprouting back up, fooling you into thinking that it has gone.
Kindest regards Piglet
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
Roundup definitely works on both but needs several applications to finish the job. You must bruise the equisetum/marestail each time to let the weedkiller react, and don't exceed the recommended strength or you may kill the tops off before the effect has got to the roots.
Having dug a small area of the plot the main rooks seem only to be a spades depth from the surface, however i have nod double dug any of the plot yet and will be trying to dig enougth ground to a least have 5 beds to grow with this year.
I hope t double dig some beds later when i have more time, i will then know how deep the roots go.
I hope t double dig some beds later when i have more time, i will then know how deep the roots go.
time is short. enjoy!
Hi Phil,
Mares Tail, Horse Tail call it what you will, has roots deeper than twice your height and it has been recorded at more than 15ft deep. Some years ago I completely cleared a major infestation in one go with Paraquat (which is no longer available on the UK market.Not because it is bad but the manufactures decided not to renew the licence.)
If you allow Mares Tails to flourish it will blanket out just about everything you try to grow.
The same results can be obtained by using Glyphosate.
You must severely bruise the MT as this is the way that the weed killer is able to penetrate the leaves.
If you simply spray there is a barrier of Silica on the leaves which makes penetration of weedkillers impossible to do their worst.
If you beat the plants(physiically) to break this barrier and then spray you will get rid of it.
My method using Paraquat.
I used the two layer of glove technique which is a NEW pair of Rubber Gauntlets with an old pair of woolen gloves over the top. Mix you weedkiller and when suitable attired, especially eye propection, place the palms of your hands onto the surface of the weedkiller and apply the weedkiller starting from the bottom of the plant and work in the weedkiller. It may not work with one application by spraying I simply do not know as this occured at my previous home and I have not had Mares Tail at this place. (been here more than 30 years)
I pussyfooted around for over 5 years trying to get rid of it and I went overseas on a posting (RAF)and when I returned I simple could not get a spade in the ground as it had taken the entire garden through the lawn up through cracks in the Patio under the fence and infected the neighbouring property.
When I returned to UK my entire property was covered with MT and everything I had down prior to that had been wiped out. So Flan and Piglet I give you fair warning that this is what can occur. I realize now that but hoeing and pussyfooting I was really responsible for spreading it.
Mares Tail, Horse Tail call it what you will, has roots deeper than twice your height and it has been recorded at more than 15ft deep. Some years ago I completely cleared a major infestation in one go with Paraquat (which is no longer available on the UK market.Not because it is bad but the manufactures decided not to renew the licence.)
If you allow Mares Tails to flourish it will blanket out just about everything you try to grow.
The same results can be obtained by using Glyphosate.
You must severely bruise the MT as this is the way that the weed killer is able to penetrate the leaves.
If you simply spray there is a barrier of Silica on the leaves which makes penetration of weedkillers impossible to do their worst.
If you beat the plants(physiically) to break this barrier and then spray you will get rid of it.
My method using Paraquat.
I used the two layer of glove technique which is a NEW pair of Rubber Gauntlets with an old pair of woolen gloves over the top. Mix you weedkiller and when suitable attired, especially eye propection, place the palms of your hands onto the surface of the weedkiller and apply the weedkiller starting from the bottom of the plant and work in the weedkiller. It may not work with one application by spraying I simply do not know as this occured at my previous home and I have not had Mares Tail at this place. (been here more than 30 years)
I pussyfooted around for over 5 years trying to get rid of it and I went overseas on a posting (RAF)and when I returned I simple could not get a spade in the ground as it had taken the entire garden through the lawn up through cracks in the Patio under the fence and infected the neighbouring property.
When I returned to UK my entire property was covered with MT and everything I had down prior to that had been wiped out. So Flan and Piglet I give you fair warning that this is what can occur. I realize now that but hoeing and pussyfooting I was really responsible for spreading it.
JB.
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fen not fen
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I couldn't have spread it any more as the place was riddled with it! It was even coming up in the shed.
Hi Fen,
My posting above was the result of pussyfooting around for more than 5 years trying to clear the Horse Tail Organically. At that time I was fully organic and it got to a point that I simply could not grow anything. You will no doubt realize that I am no longer organic and really that was the turning point. I was in the RAF at the time and could not just pop out and have a crack at it as I was stationed some 60 miles away and sometimes could not get home for a month or so and sometimes even longer periods. I was forced to make a decision that I have never regretted.
The Horse Tail made it so that my children could not play in the garden and it lifted a 40ft x 12ft Patio so that it had to be lifted-up and relayed because it was dangerous.
I now practice Pragmatic Growing which means that although I do not use chemicals on productive areas I am not averse to use them IF the occaision arises.
As I said recently all I used last year was 1.5L of made up pesticide the whole year. I do use Roundup on some non productive areas as without it I simply wouln't manage.
I know that you are SA registered so what do you intend to do about the Horse Tail?
My posting above was the result of pussyfooting around for more than 5 years trying to clear the Horse Tail Organically. At that time I was fully organic and it got to a point that I simply could not grow anything. You will no doubt realize that I am no longer organic and really that was the turning point. I was in the RAF at the time and could not just pop out and have a crack at it as I was stationed some 60 miles away and sometimes could not get home for a month or so and sometimes even longer periods. I was forced to make a decision that I have never regretted.
The Horse Tail made it so that my children could not play in the garden and it lifted a 40ft x 12ft Patio so that it had to be lifted-up and relayed because it was dangerous.
I now practice Pragmatic Growing which means that although I do not use chemicals on productive areas I am not averse to use them IF the occaision arises.
As I said recently all I used last year was 1.5L of made up pesticide the whole year. I do use Roundup on some non productive areas as without it I simply wouln't manage.
I know that you are SA registered so what do you intend to do about the Horse Tail?
JB.
I kept ducks on a patch of ground for about 5 years and they eat the mares tail (or just crushed it under webbed feet). In 1999 I got rid of those ducks and that area of the garden has not had any marestail since then 
Last year I got some more ducks and put them in a different part of the garden and they have decimated most plant growth in this area (only trees, stray potatoes and a climbing plant have remained) I hope to move the ducks to my veg field soon and will wait and see if the marestail grows again this year. It may take more than one year to weaken the root system sufficiently
Last year I got some more ducks and put them in a different part of the garden and they have decimated most plant growth in this area (only trees, stray potatoes and a climbing plant have remained) I hope to move the ducks to my veg field soon and will wait and see if the marestail grows again this year. It may take more than one year to weaken the root system sufficiently
I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne
Hi Vivie,
What a great observation! Duck do 'Puddle' things and bugger them up rather than eat them.
This could be the Organic Way to get rid of this dreadful menace weed.
I would appreciate to know if the Mares Tail does return.
What a great observation! Duck do 'Puddle' things and bugger them up rather than eat them.
This could be the Organic Way to get rid of this dreadful menace weed.
I would appreciate to know if the Mares Tail does return.
JB.
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fen not fen
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That was an allotment I had before I started this venture. The land I have now has a small patch in a very wet corner, this is an area I'm leaving as a boggy area so it doesn't matter that it is there. However I deliberately do not touch it, cultivate it or even walk through it when the spore heads are out so as to avoid spreading it any further.
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snugglebum
Hi All,
I have just taken over 2 allotments covered in couch grass. I intend to build raised beds, cover the bottom with the black weed reducing cover and fill the top with good sifted soil from the allotment which has beautiful rich soil. Time will tell.....
snugglebum.
I have just taken over 2 allotments covered in couch grass. I intend to build raised beds, cover the bottom with the black weed reducing cover and fill the top with good sifted soil from the allotment which has beautiful rich soil. Time will tell.....
snugglebum.
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peter
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Snugglebum, do spray the couch with Roundup(or similar) first, those roots are pretty strong and may well get through.
Regards, Peter.
Regards, Peter.
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.
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Guest
Hi Snugglebum and Phil S
As Peter says Ht and Cg are very persistent. Neither will have a problem with going through woven fabric.
I've had my plot for 12 years [about 40yards x 35yards] and decided not to use chemicals. The bottom end of my plot was rife with Ht, bind weed [Bw] and Cg.
Being a carpenter, I happened to be in the right place at the right time and got about half a mile of 6x1 timber. It was winter time and not a weed in site. I made 38 raised beds. [the old boys on the lotty thought I was a nutter,they still do] I put black plastic on the paths and wood chip on top. It looked bril. By mid summer you couldn't see the beds for the weeds. I spent 5 years fighting the stuff. You could dig it out of the beds, but it was always under the plastic just waiting to invade the beds.
Then the head gardener at HDRA Yalding said to try this. In the autumn rotavate the plot and sow a green manure[Gm]. In the spring rotavate the Gm in and sow another Gm. In summer rotavate again.[ The timing needs to be right for the summer one. The weather needs to be for rain. Do this a day or two before] and sow mustard. The mustard is very fast growing and will out grow the already weakened weeds. I rotovated 5 times in that year. It knocked the Bw and Cg for 6 but I'm still fighting Ht.
I do use the Ht. It's high silica content makes it good as a preventative against blight. Boil an oz or so of dry Ht in 2 pints of rain water for 20 mins then let it stand for 24 hours. Strain and add 2 gallons of water. spray at 10 to 14 day intervals, on tomatoes and potatoes. It's also good on squashes, strawberries and anything else that gets fungus diseases. Haven't tried my feet yet.
As Peter says Ht and Cg are very persistent. Neither will have a problem with going through woven fabric.
I've had my plot for 12 years [about 40yards x 35yards] and decided not to use chemicals. The bottom end of my plot was rife with Ht, bind weed [Bw] and Cg.
Being a carpenter, I happened to be in the right place at the right time and got about half a mile of 6x1 timber. It was winter time and not a weed in site. I made 38 raised beds. [the old boys on the lotty thought I was a nutter,they still do] I put black plastic on the paths and wood chip on top. It looked bril. By mid summer you couldn't see the beds for the weeds. I spent 5 years fighting the stuff. You could dig it out of the beds, but it was always under the plastic just waiting to invade the beds.
Then the head gardener at HDRA Yalding said to try this. In the autumn rotavate the plot and sow a green manure[Gm]. In the spring rotavate the Gm in and sow another Gm. In summer rotavate again.[ The timing needs to be right for the summer one. The weather needs to be for rain. Do this a day or two before] and sow mustard. The mustard is very fast growing and will out grow the already weakened weeds. I rotovated 5 times in that year. It knocked the Bw and Cg for 6 but I'm still fighting Ht.
I do use the Ht. It's high silica content makes it good as a preventative against blight. Boil an oz or so of dry Ht in 2 pints of rain water for 20 mins then let it stand for 24 hours. Strain and add 2 gallons of water. spray at 10 to 14 day intervals, on tomatoes and potatoes. It's also good on squashes, strawberries and anything else that gets fungus diseases. Haven't tried my feet yet.