Soil health

[JohnN]

Hi all ( and especially JB and OH!)
After some dismal germination and growing results this year I am worried that some parts of my kitchen garden soil are in decline. I do pH tests every now and again and they seem OK, but is there any other tests or analysis I can do (or get done) to check on this? Over some 48 years my soil has had added pelleted chicken manure, mushroom compost (long time ago), Growmore, BF&B, bonemeal, doses of Phostrogen and compost from my heap (but not a lot, as I find it brings weeds galore). I get the feeling it perhaps needs more good old "earth", but the top soil you get in bags don't look right and is very expensive. Suggestions, please guys and guyesses.
John N

[PLUMPUDDING]

Hi John, I'm gardening on the same soil that my father had been tending for over 60 years and last year had the same experience as you, that things weren't growing as well as they should. ~This was really noticeable as I was growing extra plants to take to the allotment and the ones on the allotment were much larger and stronger than the ones I put in my garden.

So as well as the Growmore, home-made compost, wilted comfrey and liming appropriate areas I've added lots and lots of well rotted horse manure and it has worked wonders. I must say I panicked when I saw the item about hormone weedkiller in horse manure, but everything is OK.

I have been wondering about trying a bag of Rock Dust, but it seems very expensive. Has anyone else tried it?

Pat

[oldherbaceous]

Dear JohnN, I doubt very much if there is much wrong with your soil, it is more likely to do with the weather conditions. I say this because even if your soil wasn't in the best of condition you would still get the seed to germinate but it would struggle later as things get growing.

I think a lot of people are experiencing the same problems this year, especially with outdoor germination.

You could try giving the plants that are growing, a liqiud feed, this often gives them a quick fix if they are a little stressed.

[Lurganspade]

Hi John

It has been a "funny" year so far with me, both with seeds germinating as well as growing on.
Germination of vegetables has been erratic to say the least!
I have just resown and they have germinated perfectly, Saladin lettuce in the same compost as the previous lot which did not bother germinating.
(Same seed,same old compost.)
I am on my 5th lot of Greyhound cabbages, the first lot did not bother hearting up, the second lot were perfect, the third lot are still sitting there almost the same size as when transplanted,the fourth lot are ready, and the fifth lot will be thansplanted some day next week.
Only the potatoes and greenhouse tomatoes have performed better than expected, both have been harvested earlier than in previous years,and taste just fine.
And the soil is as normal,so it would appear the weather is to blame!

Cheers

[Colin Miles]

I am another who has experienced totally erratic germination using same seed and composts - brassica, beans, lettuce, peas. Doesn't seem to correlate with the weather either. Outdoors Carrots have done well and the potatoes look fantastic - shouldn't say that should I as we have just had an almost Smith period. Also interested to see that the Winter Squash Uchiki Kuri is thriving despite the general gloom and wetness, but not the Butternut Squash Ponca.

[donedigging]

Hi Colin,

I am having the same problems with germination here aswell??

Please excuse my ignorance but, what is a "Smith period"?

[John]

Hello JohnN
If you think you soil needs rejuvenating there are a couple of things that you could do. One is not to crop it for a year, just growing various green manures on it according to the season. I think this would be a long term project with you taking out, say, a different 1/4 of your area out of circulation each year over a four year period. This would rest the soil and allow it to recover.
Another option would be to double dig it. This technique is covered in all good gardening books and basically involves burying the top soil layer underneath the lower layer. I imagine its really hard work and can't say I know anyone who has ever tried it but it's supposed to do a very good job of improving the soil.

From what you say it sounds as though a lot of chemical based stuff has been added over time and not so much organic matter. Perhaps you should try for a better balance with lots and lots of horse manure or similar as Ppudding has suggested.

John

[Primrose]

This struck a chord with me too because I've been growing vegetables on the same area for 30 years since we moved into this house (from new)and despite digging in lots of manure over the years, sometimes it does look "undernourished and worn out", possibly because the soil is rather stoney and dries out quickly. But interestingly the border where I grow flowers and sunflowers seems to look more "worn out" than the veggie growing areas and all my veggies are currently cropping well. I might try a green manure this winter on the bare patches, just to see if it makes any difference. I do think weather and soil temperature plays a big factor in germination rates because seeds sown in my mini greenhouse have generally germinated well whereas outdoor sowings have not been so successful. But I blame slugs for a high propotion of my soil-sown failures, and possibly getting to grips with the slugs which live in the soil may prove part of the answer.

[Monika]

Our plot is divided into roughly three equal-sized areas (for the usual rotation) as well as some small side areas for the rest. My husband always insists on double digging each one of the three large areas in turn and incorporating manure, that is, every three years, and I don't think it does them any good! The side areas which have NOT been double dug since we got the plot about 20 years ago but get a good covering of manure most autumns, are in much better fettle than the three large ones. So, this year for the first time, he is not going to double dig anything and from now we'll just treat them like the side areas. We do also cover one of the large areas with green manure every winter and dig it in in spring.

Does that prove that double digging isn't necessary and may even be bad for the soil?

[Geoff]

The main problem I have with no-dig is why did digging (and double-digging for that matter) become standard practice? I'm sure it wasn't to keep the under-gardeners occupied nor was it published in a book then just repeated endlessly without being questioned, like a lot of gardening advice. I think it became the accepted method of cultivation because it works. What do you mean by double-digging? Remove a spit, break up another spit, mix organic matter into the lower spit, then the debatable step, do you add anything to the upper spit? I would suggest you do. My common reference "Know and Grow Vegetables" quotes some enormous improvements achieved with double-digging, 95% with Broad Beans but mostly 10 to 30%. I would suggest double-digging once every 3 or 4 years is beneficial with plenty of organic matter into the top spit as well and most of the other years.

[Lurganspade]

My allotment soil is very heavy "Severn clay", porriage in the winter, concrete in the summer.
As we get loads of stable manure for free, I have added loads every year for years, and it is still more or less the same, but what crops it produces!
The first year I took over it was waist high in all sorts of weeds,and by the time I got rid of them, the soil was much too difficult to cultivate (dig) at that time.
I planted lots of potatoes, which were soon swamped by weeds, little I could do at the time.
When I came to harvest them, they were all on or near the surface of the soil.
The soil was just to hard for them to be bothered, going down into it.
Now I have to "double dig" when I am harvesting my potatoes now, they love the deep soil.
I add lots of manure low down,when I have got the potatoes out of the rows,as that helps to get rid of the manure stacks.
No doubt some one of the "no-dig" brigade will post and say they get wonderful crops, but not on my type of soil!

Cheers!

[Johnboy]

Hi John,
Reading your posting it strikes me that what your plot lacks in Humus. Mushroom compost a long time ago and you do not like using your own home made compost because of weeds. These are the things that you should be using to build up soil fertilization. Apart from the two mentioned above components everything else you mention does not contribute to making a good loam. As I see it what you really need is bulk compost and preferably double dug to begin with.
Monika, you say the main areas and the side areas and I would assume that totally different crops are grown in each. The side areas are not double dug and are in better fettle. Are we going by appearance or are the crops that you grow in the side beds shorter rooted.
I have yet to find a plot that doesn't benefit by double digging as Geoff says every 4 years or thereabouts.
True double digging is the removal of two spits deep adding compost at that level and then again at the one spit level. Three years later you will have the most magnificent Parsnips and Carrots after Potatoes in the first year. Grow what you will in the second year.
Lurganspade,
When you double dig your plot try incorporating a goodly amount of sharp sand with the compost/manure and this helps the clay not binding up again.
I used to garden on Hertfordshire Clay which is renown to be amongst the worst clay areas in the country. I had just about got that in good fettle and I moved to this site which thankfully has no clay.
JB.

[Colin Miles]

Hertfordshire clay is horrid but very fertile - you just need to get rid of the weeds to start with! But Primrose, just to add to the bit about erratic germination, with me it has been the indoor sowings, not the outdoor ones. Outdoors Carrots (6 at different times), Parsnips, Swedes, Beetroot - no problem. Indoors Brassicas, Lettuce and Peas varying between 10% and 100% with same seeds and compost. Totally baffling.

[richard p]

well Johnboy if youve got a week or two to spare and a pickaxe you can come and have a go on a bit of my plot , theres about four inches of clayey soil over layered limestone, dont bother bringing a spade the topsoil contains so many stones that you cant dig it with a spade, it just wont go in without hitting several. when youve finished you wont have improved it just stirred up a lot of stone
ive settled on permenant beds which are gradually getting deeper by adding material (compost, lawnmowings,manure) to the top and letting the worms pull it in. if i need to drastically increase the yield ill just make a few more beds from the grass areas.

[Primrose]

Richard, I regularly bemoan the stoney ground we have here, but we don't have any clay which must make your soil very difficult to work with , so next time I'm grumbling to myself, I'll remember to remind myself about your situation and possibly think myself lucky. For all of us gardeners it's often a case of the grass looking greener on the other side of the fence until we have to grapple with some of the actual problems which gardeners really face in specific local areas. For all of us I guess it's a case of just trying to make the best of what we've ended up with.