I have been very lucky and got my apple trees from Aldi a day early because they've got so many in this year to cope with demand. Thought I'd miss out 'cos I wouldn't have been able to get there early tomorrow.
Anyway, now I've got them (1 each of Cox & Elstar) I need to know how close to each other should they be for best pollination? There is another eating-apple tree 2 plots along from me, but I don't know what variety it is.
I could put them about 10-12 ft. apart at one end, but it would mean moving a large pile of earth/perennial weeds for the third time and I'd really rather not!
The alternative is to have one tree at each end of the plot....what does anyone think please?
Apple tree pollination
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
Hi Jude,
The distance for planting is really determined by the rootstock the tree is grafted on to.
M9 Dwarf Height 6-9ft M26 Semi-dwarf 9-12ft M 106 Vigourous/Half Standard up to 14ft.
It really depends also in which form you are going to grow your tree, Bush,Cordon or Espalier.
If you know the rootstock and the form that you are going to use I will do my best to supply the correct information.
The distance for planting is really determined by the rootstock the tree is grafted on to.
M9 Dwarf Height 6-9ft M26 Semi-dwarf 9-12ft M 106 Vigourous/Half Standard up to 14ft.
It really depends also in which form you are going to grow your tree, Bush,Cordon or Espalier.
If you know the rootstock and the form that you are going to use I will do my best to supply the correct information.
JB.
Mrs Bee will happily travel from one end of your plot to the other to pollinate your trees.
Even on dwarf rootstock I would think that 10 to 12 feet is too close, as this would not allow them to spread and make easy access.
If you look on the packaging it says VERY VAGUELY how much they spread (5 to 25 feet if my memory serves me right) so I would plant them at least 30 feet apart (to allow a ladder in to pick the high fruit)
I did get one fruit off mine (Elstar) that I purchased last year!
Even on dwarf rootstock I would think that 10 to 12 feet is too close, as this would not allow them to spread and make easy access.
If you look on the packaging it says VERY VAGUELY how much they spread (5 to 25 feet if my memory serves me right) so I would plant them at least 30 feet apart (to allow a ladder in to pick the high fruit)
I did get one fruit off mine (Elstar) that I purchased last year!
I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne
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pigletwillie
- KG Regular
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- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:38 pm
- Location: Leicestershire
Johnboy,
I have picked up six of these apples, which are a bit too high to turn into step overs so I am going to turn them into 2 tier espaliers with the top tier about 4-5 ft high. I would like to grow them all in a row, would 8-10 ft spacings be ok if I am hard with the pruning.
Also I picked up an apricot and a cherry (stella), the spricot will be grown in a pot in the polytunnel but will a rootbag contain the size of the cherry to 8 ft or so or would that too be best in a pot to curb its growth.
I have picked up six of these apples, which are a bit too high to turn into step overs so I am going to turn them into 2 tier espaliers with the top tier about 4-5 ft high. I would like to grow them all in a row, would 8-10 ft spacings be ok if I am hard with the pruning.
Also I picked up an apricot and a cherry (stella), the spricot will be grown in a pot in the polytunnel but will a rootbag contain the size of the cherry to 8 ft or so or would that too be best in a pot to curb its growth.
Kindest regards Piglet
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
Hi Piglet,
I know this sounds a tad silly but it is very hard to advise you. This is because if you do not know the rootstock it is impossible to determine what will be recognized as 'Normal Growth.'
If they turn out to be M9 they are not suitable for anything but Bush or Cordon use. M26 you can get
anything up to a 3 tier Espalier and M106 you can do anything you really want up to Half Standard.
Planting distances are really determined by the choice of Rootstock amd what method of growing you decide to adopt. With Espaliers it is normal to use M26 or M106 and the planting distance is really not less than 12ft.
I have just invested in some M106 which are going to be trained into Ladder Espaliers and may even get to see the finished job if the good Lord grants me an extension!! These will be at 15ft centres minimum but I have more room to play with than most.
The only Apricots I have ever had any dealings with were in France and the trees were enormous so again I am not much use to you. Stella Cherry if grown in a largish pot could be contained quite well I feel as they are mainly grown on Gisela 5 root stock which is a dwarfing rootstock.
I suspect that the Lidl/Aldi fruit trees are imported and not on certified rootdtocks, as we have grown in UK, and it appears to me that you pays your money and take your chances.
I know this sounds a tad silly but it is very hard to advise you. This is because if you do not know the rootstock it is impossible to determine what will be recognized as 'Normal Growth.'
If they turn out to be M9 they are not suitable for anything but Bush or Cordon use. M26 you can get
anything up to a 3 tier Espalier and M106 you can do anything you really want up to Half Standard.
Planting distances are really determined by the choice of Rootstock amd what method of growing you decide to adopt. With Espaliers it is normal to use M26 or M106 and the planting distance is really not less than 12ft.
I have just invested in some M106 which are going to be trained into Ladder Espaliers and may even get to see the finished job if the good Lord grants me an extension!! These will be at 15ft centres minimum but I have more room to play with than most.
The only Apricots I have ever had any dealings with were in France and the trees were enormous so again I am not much use to you. Stella Cherry if grown in a largish pot could be contained quite well I feel as they are mainly grown on Gisela 5 root stock which is a dwarfing rootstock.
I suspect that the Lidl/Aldi fruit trees are imported and not on certified rootdtocks, as we have grown in UK, and it appears to me that you pays your money and take your chances.
JB.
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pigletwillie
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- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:38 pm
- Location: Leicestershire
Johnboy, they are a bit vague regarding to height but 25 ft seems to be average,
will these be ok for cordons?
will these be ok for cordons?
Kindest regards Piglet
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
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Guest
Hi Piglet,
Have you thought of growing your apples and possible the cherry and apricot as a festoon?
The branches are bent down and tied either to the main stem or the branch below in a series of hoops. This make the tree smaller (height) and can produce a heavy crop as it encourages more fruit bud growth.
I have a 'Lord Derby' apple tree in my garden that I planted 8 years ago and I wish I had used this technique on it, as it is now 12+ feet tall, despite Pruning the leading branch and picking the fruit can be hazardous...I always leave a few on the tree as I just can't get in with the ladder to reach them.
I would think using this technique you would get away with 10 feet centres
Fortunately the trees I bought last year are in the field and are not cramped for space, but I may try this with a few of them to stop them getting too big.
Vivie veg
(sorry forgot to log in!!!!)
If you want more details see The organic Garden Book by Geoff Hamilton page 208. If you cannot get hold of the book, let me know and I will try to scan it and mail to you, but scanned files do tend to be rather big!
Have you thought of growing your apples and possible the cherry and apricot as a festoon?
The branches are bent down and tied either to the main stem or the branch below in a series of hoops. This make the tree smaller (height) and can produce a heavy crop as it encourages more fruit bud growth.
I have a 'Lord Derby' apple tree in my garden that I planted 8 years ago and I wish I had used this technique on it, as it is now 12+ feet tall, despite Pruning the leading branch and picking the fruit can be hazardous...I always leave a few on the tree as I just can't get in with the ladder to reach them.
I would think using this technique you would get away with 10 feet centres
Fortunately the trees I bought last year are in the field and are not cramped for space, but I may try this with a few of them to stop them getting too big.
Vivie veg
(sorry forgot to log in!!!!)
If you want more details see The organic Garden Book by Geoff Hamilton page 208. If you cannot get hold of the book, let me know and I will try to scan it and mail to you, but scanned files do tend to be rather big!
Hi Piglet,
With the various rootstock available M9 (Max 9ft) will give Bushes and Small Cordons. M26 (Max 12ft) will give Bush, Cordon and Three tier Espalier, Fan and Triple Cordons. M106 (Max 14ft) will give all prior plus a full Espalier (up to 5 tiers) Ladder and a Half Standard Tree.
If they grow to 25ft they are Full Standards and exceedingly vigourous and will be quite difficult to contain although it can be done. However full fruiting takes several years. Full Standards need 20ft between trees down the row and 35ft between rows. My father grew pillar trees (before the rootstock code was in being so I assume full standard trees) which seem to not get a mention today. Plant the tree upright and allow growth to be no more than a foot from the trunk in any direction. His yields were tremendous and exceedingly easy to pick. From memory they were probably lopped off at around 15ft and all further upwards growth discouraged
These Lidl Trees worry me to death 'cos nobody seems to know how to grow them!
With the various rootstock available M9 (Max 9ft) will give Bushes and Small Cordons. M26 (Max 12ft) will give Bush, Cordon and Three tier Espalier, Fan and Triple Cordons. M106 (Max 14ft) will give all prior plus a full Espalier (up to 5 tiers) Ladder and a Half Standard Tree.
If they grow to 25ft they are Full Standards and exceedingly vigourous and will be quite difficult to contain although it can be done. However full fruiting takes several years. Full Standards need 20ft between trees down the row and 35ft between rows. My father grew pillar trees (before the rootstock code was in being so I assume full standard trees) which seem to not get a mention today. Plant the tree upright and allow growth to be no more than a foot from the trunk in any direction. His yields were tremendous and exceedingly easy to pick. From memory they were probably lopped off at around 15ft and all further upwards growth discouraged
These Lidl Trees worry me to death 'cos nobody seems to know how to grow them!
JB.
Johnboy, I think you meant to say Aldi,not Lidl. I'll se if there are any in our branch (of shop!) and if so, if any clue as to what rooting stock used. It's unusual for any reputable firm to market full standard rootstock these days and I have great respect for the quality of goods at Aldi.
Allan
Allan
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pigletwillie
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- Location: Leicestershire
Jude, dont miss a wink sweetheart, mine are still in the workshop and will be just kept moist at the roots until late next week and will be planted any which way that I can
Kindest regards Piglet
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
Well fancy me not knowing my Aldi from my Lidl next thing it will be my arse from my elbow oh how tepmus is fugiting!!
Thank you Allan I of course meant Aldi. I have neither of them within a reasonable distance of my home so have yet to visit either.
It would appear that people have asked ALDI which rootstock they are on and have got a negative reply.
However Allan I really do not think that you are correct in saying that no reputable company would market a full standard tree today. There are many reputable companies producing trees for the English Heritage Orchards Scheme with are decidedly reputable. Your nearest supplier is Bulmers who sell Full Standard trees. (I think in conjunction with English Heritage.)
Thank you Allan I of course meant Aldi. I have neither of them within a reasonable distance of my home so have yet to visit either.
It would appear that people have asked ALDI which rootstock they are on and have got a negative reply.
However Allan I really do not think that you are correct in saying that no reputable company would market a full standard tree today. There are many reputable companies producing trees for the English Heritage Orchards Scheme with are decidedly reputable. Your nearest supplier is Bulmers who sell Full Standard trees. (I think in conjunction with English Heritage.)
JB.
Johnboy
Aldi here is 10 minutes up Great Western Way cycle path, Lidl is the other side of town by the railway station. When they both set up we had a great difficulty remembering which was which, the names are almost anagrams of each other but for the vowel and I believe that both have their roots in Germany (aside, my Grandfather was German, naturalised British at 17)What I really meant that a reputable company of grocery &c retailers would not knowingly market a full standard tree if they were aware that the probability was that the majority of their customers would be amateur gardeners with no room or expertise to grow a large tree in their garden.It's all a balance of information which is difficult at times. You stop Mr or Mrs Average and ask them if they want a MM105 or a M9 and they won't have a clue, so if you put that on the packet it would help some people and frighten others off. Personally I try very hard never to grow any plant that I don't know all about but you will have observed that most of our garden and allotment friends are not that way inclined, the first priority sadly is the price ticket. My view is that up to a point money is replaceble but wasted time and effort is not. In this case I would cut my losses, ditch those trees and start again having learnt from my mistake.
Back to the Aldi situation, we are not a position to know in whose hands such decisions were taken or ignored, we can only judge the effect on the customer.
Aldi here is 10 minutes up Great Western Way cycle path, Lidl is the other side of town by the railway station. When they both set up we had a great difficulty remembering which was which, the names are almost anagrams of each other but for the vowel and I believe that both have their roots in Germany (aside, my Grandfather was German, naturalised British at 17)What I really meant that a reputable company of grocery &c retailers would not knowingly market a full standard tree if they were aware that the probability was that the majority of their customers would be amateur gardeners with no room or expertise to grow a large tree in their garden.It's all a balance of information which is difficult at times. You stop Mr or Mrs Average and ask them if they want a MM105 or a M9 and they won't have a clue, so if you put that on the packet it would help some people and frighten others off. Personally I try very hard never to grow any plant that I don't know all about but you will have observed that most of our garden and allotment friends are not that way inclined, the first priority sadly is the price ticket. My view is that up to a point money is replaceble but wasted time and effort is not. In this case I would cut my losses, ditch those trees and start again having learnt from my mistake.
Back to the Aldi situation, we are not a position to know in whose hands such decisions were taken or ignored, we can only judge the effect on the customer.
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Guest
In a previous life with a food manufacturer I dealt with both Lidl and Aldi (via various marketing and buying departments) and my impression is that techinically their buyers don't know what they are buying...if it looks good (tastes good) and they can get at a cheap price then they will try it one year and if it sells in a reasonable time then they will double the order the next year.
I am sure that they have used this principle and lets face it, MANY Many people will buy them and plant a few in their garden without a care in the world about rootstocks and pruning methods.
When I bought mine last year there were 3 of us at 9am searching through to pick out the best specimens and varieties we wanted, we all were after them to grow an orchard. I have an 11 acre field for 5 years with an option to extend the lease agreement or buy should my business take off. I was not going to spend £20 on each tree which would only be coming into production towards the end of the 5 years, however £4 per tree is worth a try. I have planted with 10 meters each way between them and see what happens.
I would bet that these tree come from Holland (there may be some markings on the packaging to indicate country of origin..but it may be in code) and I would not be surprised it they were of mixed root stock...the grower would have a contract to supply X thousand in various proportions of apples, pears, cherries, plum and apricotes and may well use the ones that they have surplus after picking out specific rootstock for more exacting customers. Perhaps Piglet could check the packaging...does it say grows between 5 feet high and 25 feet depending on the vigour of the variety...or am I thinking of the trees that I bought from Kwiksave?
Anyway, good luck sorting out your rootstock piglet et al, but I think it's a case of plant them and see want they do!
Vivie veg
Forgot to log in again!
I am sure that they have used this principle and lets face it, MANY Many people will buy them and plant a few in their garden without a care in the world about rootstocks and pruning methods.
When I bought mine last year there were 3 of us at 9am searching through to pick out the best specimens and varieties we wanted, we all were after them to grow an orchard. I have an 11 acre field for 5 years with an option to extend the lease agreement or buy should my business take off. I was not going to spend £20 on each tree which would only be coming into production towards the end of the 5 years, however £4 per tree is worth a try. I have planted with 10 meters each way between them and see what happens.
I would bet that these tree come from Holland (there may be some markings on the packaging to indicate country of origin..but it may be in code) and I would not be surprised it they were of mixed root stock...the grower would have a contract to supply X thousand in various proportions of apples, pears, cherries, plum and apricotes and may well use the ones that they have surplus after picking out specific rootstock for more exacting customers. Perhaps Piglet could check the packaging...does it say grows between 5 feet high and 25 feet depending on the vigour of the variety...or am I thinking of the trees that I bought from Kwiksave?
Anyway, good luck sorting out your rootstock piglet et al, but I think it's a case of plant them and see want they do!
Vivie veg
Forgot to log in again!
