Kitchen Garden Forum

I've been using the wet weekend to plan a rotation. I can't just follow a conventional scheme as I don't grow brassicas but do love squashes.

What I was thinking was a 6 year rotation, as two beds per catergory seemed to work out to the right proportions.

The question is when do I lime, I assume I still need to lime?

(Attempts to do a pH test on my plot failed as the level of silt particles in the sample meant it never settled out.)

Here's my plan:

POTATOES
ONIONS, LEEKS AND SHALLOTS
SQUASH
SALAD AND SWEETCORN
BEANS AND PEAS
ROOTS, TOMATILLOS AND HERBS



And heres my 'Grand Scheme' ... I like to kid myself its all going to happen neatly and according to best practice

Any comments welcome, as I still feel very ignorant on what to feed which and when.

ADD MANURE AND BFB MEAL

POTATOES

ADD COMPOST AND BFB MEAL WHEN HARVESTED SPUDS

SPRINKLE OF LIME JUST BEFORE SOW WINTER SHALLOTS AND GARLIC

GREEN MANURE OF MUSTARD ON REST OF THE SECTION TILL SPRING SOWINGS - CUT AND COMOST TO LEAVE GROUND FIRM FOR ONIONS.

ONIONS, LEEKS AND SALAD

MANURE, CHICKEN FERTILIZER, DEAD BODIES, GREEN MANURES DUG IN.

SQUASH

MORE MANURE ETC ON FOR SWEETCORN, GREEN MANURE TO DIG IN.

SWEETCORN AND SALAD

GREEN MANURE - FIELD BEANS AND RYEGRASS?

BEANS, PEAS

LEAFMOULD, GREEN MANURE - SOMETHING TO BREAK UP THE SOIL, ON AREAS WITH LATER CROPS GOING IN.

ROOTS (including the beets and brassicas), TOMATILLOS


Thank you feel like I'm asking someone to mark my homework for me.

Dear Di, i have to say i'm rather impressed with your plan.

If you can stick to a six year rotation plan it will work very well.

I think i might be tempted to lime the plot in the winter, that is to have the peas and beans on, but thats just me.

I would lime the ground in winter prior to the brassicas being planted and would certainly check on the pH before and after liming.

Di, i've read somewhere that liming at the same time as adding compost / manure is counter-productive. It seems that you are liming a little bit too close to the compost-adding. My own scheme would involve liming before summer-planted brassicas, which I put in after garlic and broad beans and winter tares. I manure before these [though not so much for garlic].

mike

Never throw anything away.

Hi,

OH
I think i might be tempted to lime the plot in the winter, that is to have the peas and beans on, but thats just me.


I think you may be right, it seems a good way from the addition of manure or compost, where I thought of doing it is too close as Mike pointed out.

Think i may have to do some research into which crops like which pH and also where to get a better, silt proof test kit.

Ah 6 years - hope I'll still be on this plot when I've done a loop

Hasn’t lime gone up in price, not long ago it was just over £2 for 25Kg but this year my two bags were £4.25 each.
Here are some quotes from “Know and Grow Vegetables” – the only scientific veg book I know of, pity Wellesbourne has closed something like it is needed to counter balance the mumbojumboists.
Plant Sensitivity to pH and lime
The various species of plant grown in the garden differ in the range of pH values within which they will grow successfully; an attempt is made to indicate these ranges below:
pH 5.0 – 6.0
Potato, Rhubarb
pH 5.5 – 7.0
Broad Bean, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Cucumber, French Bean, Marrow, Parsley, Parsnip, Peas, Radish, Swede, Sweet Corn, Tomato, Turnip
pH 6.5 – 7.5
Asparagus, Beetroot, Carrot, Cauliflower, Celery, Leek, Lettuce, Onion, Spinach
How much lime?
Adjustment of the soil pH for individual crops is impossible as it often takes several seasons to correct soil acidity by liming. The best policy is to adjust garden soils to about 6.5 (5.8 if a peat soil) at which all vegetables should grow successfully.
A simple pH test will indicate whether a soil needs liming but the amounts required are dependent on soil type. A sandy soil with a coarse texture requires about ½lb, a loam 1lb and a clay or organic soil 1½lb per square yard (270, 540 or 810 gm per sq metre) of ground limestone to raise the soil pH by one unit, e.g. from pH 6.0 to 7.0. It is preferable to use several annual dressings of smaller quantities rather than use a large amount on one occasion. Hydrated lime can also be used, the effects being similar except that hydrated lime reacts more quickly with the soil but is less pleasant to handle
When to apply lime
The purpose of liming is to neutralize the acidity in the soil, but this is a process that is not completed quickly. In the case of hydrated lime, damage to crops can be caused if it is applied just before sowing or planting. The best time to apply lime is prior to Autumn digging so that crop damage is avoided and the full effect of the liming achieved. It should be applied in the rotational sequence before the lime-loving crops.
In most situations, the natural trend is for soil to become acid so liming is normally required.

Hope that helps!

mumbojumboists

Wow Geoff,

Thank you for taking such trouble, I haven't seen such a concise,thorough and clear explaination for liming before. I will be having a look to see if I can get the book you mentioned via a booksearch site or two.

From what you say the lime will be going on asap where the beans are due, and possibly where the roots are going in.


Don't know if you've read 'An ear to the Ground' and 'Nettles not required' by Ken Thompson, they are not specifically about veg but are good for putting the scientific background for gardening practices. I like a little mumbojumbo and experimentation, but i also like to know the reason for things.

Thanks again
Di

It is in two volumes but well out of print.
First volume is "Know and Grow Vegetables" by PJ Salter, JKA Bleasdale and others ISBN 0 19 857547 5.
Most of the information is in this first book - lots about maximizing yield per unit area via correct spacing.
Hint : If you put ISBN numbers into the search box on Amazon you find secondhand sources - put some of your favourites in and you'll find amazing prices.

Hi Geoff
I've got the first volume but would love to get the second - could you post the ISBN number?

many thanks

ISBN 0-19-286017-8
Looks seriously expensive via Amazon might have to search elsewhere. The chapter headings are:
Choosing a variety
Planning continuity of supply
Storing vegetables
Weeds and weed control
Managing your soil
How vegetables grow and develop