Kitchen Garden Forum

Having purchased 50 plug plants - Brassicas - and potted them on, when I came to plant them out I didn't really have much space. As my last sowing of Autumn King was very patchy I planted the Mayflower Cauliflowers out amongst them, with a little further thinning. The end result is about a couple of dozen enormous carrots and 10 fine looking Cauliflower plants - they're not supposed to be ready till Spring. Perhaps the carrots are a combination of the fine Autumn weather, the more than adequate spacing, or maybe they are happier growing with the Caulis.

French Beans, Sweet Corn and Squashes apparently co-exist very happily and Runner Beans can occupy the same spot for several years. So I begin to think that sowing things together in rows is more for our convenience and rather UnOrganic. Obviously rotation can help reduce pest build-ups, but without concentrations of veg those wouldn't occur. Looks like I shall be doing some experiments next year.

Dear Colin, i grow Autumn king that have been thinned to about four inches, and these grow to a very large size. My soil is on the heavy side by the way, and Autumn King seem to like it.

I agree that some people stick to a very rigid rotation scheme, and i don't think it is totally necessary.

I try and get two, sometimes three crops off the same piece of ground in one season, so it would be very hard to do this anyway.

I know some people swear by companion planting, but i haven't tried it myself so cannot really pass comment.

Dear OH,
Interested to hear you say that you don`t always rotate rigidly - if you see what I mean!
I can never manage to stick to a strict rotation - I`m always using up little patches of freed ground or sticking a few plants at the edges of beds.
Very undisciplined

We have found over the years that it is best to two separate rotations. Not easy to explain, but we keep to a strict three year rotation for the three largest plots on the allotment:
- brassicas
- peas + broadbeans
- potatoes.

All the remaining crops are then rotated in the remaining smaller plots on the allotment, usually in the order
- French beans+celeriac+marrows (heavy feeders on newly manured ground)
- all the onion family, including leeks, shallots and garlic
- roots, including carrots + parsnips

It seems to work very well and becomes quite routine without too much thought or record keeping!

I'm rather relieved to read all this. I've always thought I was a rather Baaaaaad gardener because I don't rotate properly (though I am rather good at going round in circles, especially when stressed).

Like Elderflower I put stuff in where it will fit and hope for the best. I try to remember where the spuds, brassicas ans onions went last year, and then move them all up a bit, but everything else gets put in where there is a space at the right time.

How is it possible to rotate when one grows different quantities of different types of veg anyway???

i guess its a case of bearing good practice in mind but not worrying too much if in practise things have to go where theres a space... guess its being pragmatic

Hi Richard,
Now who would have thought that the word Pragmatic would ever slip off your pen!
I think that too much store is placed in crop rotation. There are two things that must never be grown in the same place in successive years and they are Potatoes and Brassicas because there is the possibility of disease following on. Again I would add that Outdoor Tomatoes should not follow Potatoes
because of the risk of disease.
I have just had a very successful year with Runner Beans and this was the sixteenth year of growing in the same bed without any difficulty. I found it difficult to site the beans without shading something else out so decided to make the site permanent. I also have a dedicated onion patch much against all the advice and that gets moved about every fifth year and again I have had no difficulty.
Things do get moved around but not as some would believe to be necessary. They seem to get moved down the plot rather than moved. I take Sea Kale Beet as an example. Last years crop will still be producing when I sow the next years crop and they go about a foot down the plot and again I have never had any difficulty. Rotate crops by all means but it is part and parcel of an inexact science and not a religion.
JB.

Phew! Thank goodness for that. Where about in Herefordshire are you Johnboy? We are just outside Worcester.

Hi all,
I like Monika's dual system, except that I would [if space were available] make a 4-year system, growing a Green manure after the brassicas. Mustard seems a good one before spuds. My own system is an 8-year rotation, but as the spuds take up a larger area than others they are slowly catching up with the tomatoes and I'm therefore going to have a problem the year after next.

Johnboy, what you've said is just about the same as almost all the organic growing books I've read: it's a good idea, essential for potatoes and brassicas, but it's not worth worrying about if things go a little awry, or even considerably so.

Best wishes
mike