First posting - so good morning all.
We have just bought some land adjoining our garden and step one is to expand an existing small patch of fruit trees into an orchard. We have four well established Bramleys, one young Charles Ross (we think), a Victoria plum, a Conference pear, a greengage, a couple of damsons and a couple of early plums that I think might be River Early Prolific. We have also been given (in pots now ready to plant later) a mulberry and an eating apple called a Herefordshire Russet.
We lean towards planting old local varieties (west Herefordshire) but only when thay fulfil our other criteria. We need a range of varieties that will give us fruit over as long a season as possible, with some that will store well. Having followed the organic postings for some time, I can say that in KG terms we are "pragmatic" gardeners but our use of chemicals is very low and having trees with natural resistance to disease is more important than heritage.
Any suggestions?
Orchard trees
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
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Jenny Green
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I can vouch for Pixie and Winston as being pretty disease resistant. They are growing on clay. Both are late season cultivars and Winston is a good keeper too.
They're apples, in case you were wondering!
The pears I grow are Beth and Durondeau which have so far been trouble free.
Can I suggest you plant a quince too? Easy to grow and they make lovely jam.
They're apples, in case you were wondering!
The pears I grow are Beth and Durondeau which have so far been trouble free.
Can I suggest you plant a quince too? Easy to grow and they make lovely jam.
(Formerly known as 'Organic Freak')
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Thanks.
Quince is definitely on the list - we were given some fruit last year and made jelly and "cheese" or membrillo.
Got the magazine after posting my original question and they have also got some favourite apples. Any ideas for plums?
Quince is definitely on the list - we were given some fruit last year and made jelly and "cheese" or membrillo.
Got the magazine after posting my original question and they have also got some favourite apples. Any ideas for plums?
Hi Heyjude,
Welcome from another Herefordian,
What root stock are you intending to use?
Are the existing trees Full Standard Trees?
How much available land have you got?
Sorry to be so inquisitive but I am trying to imagine the layout.
JB.
Welcome from another Herefordian,
What root stock are you intending to use?
Are the existing trees Full Standard Trees?
How much available land have you got?
Sorry to be so inquisitive but I am trying to imagine the layout.
JB.
For nursery I would go to Deacon's, Isle of Wight.
Don't bother about an early cooker as you can use the winfalls of anything. For the main cooker it has to be Bramley. I have a massive book "The English Apple". very good for quite a wide range.Of course you will have to ensure that you always have at least 2 trees in flower at each pollinating period.
Don't bother about an early cooker as you can use the winfalls of anything. For the main cooker it has to be Bramley. I have a massive book "The English Apple". very good for quite a wide range.Of course you will have to ensure that you always have at least 2 trees in flower at each pollinating period.
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Geoff
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We bought some fruit from a nursery not too far from you and they have done really well.
http://www.jaspertrees.co.uk/
They are helpful and do answer emails so if you get close to a list they will discuss any queries with you.
Are you sure about what you have - I can't see how the Bramleys are getting pollinated unless you have neighbours. I would get an early cooker, not much to choose between Grenadier/Early Victoria/Emneth Early and a mid season like Lanes Prince Albert. Eaters are a matter of taste Discovery?, Gala? I can't think of a god late keeper eater at the moment. Very early signs suggest I might have found a pear Concorde that grows with me but you need local knowledge for pears, step in JB.
http://www.jaspertrees.co.uk/
They are helpful and do answer emails so if you get close to a list they will discuss any queries with you.
Are you sure about what you have - I can't see how the Bramleys are getting pollinated unless you have neighbours. I would get an early cooker, not much to choose between Grenadier/Early Victoria/Emneth Early and a mid season like Lanes Prince Albert. Eaters are a matter of taste Discovery?, Gala? I can't think of a god late keeper eater at the moment. Very early signs suggest I might have found a pear Concorde that grows with me but you need local knowledge for pears, step in JB.
Hi Geoff,
There seems to be a strict pecking order with Pears.
In my orchard they are planted in line with the prevailing wind beginning with the earlies. Having said that you must know the parentage of any hybrid
as they do not pollinate anything with the same lineage.
Paul Jasper is in Leominster so only 15 miles away from me. I must admit that I have never bought anything from him as I buy from a commercial nursery in Tenbury Wells. (who's name escapes me at the present moment!!)
I was advised many moons ago to plant Crab Apples in the hedge and I have three wild varieties that I have grown and I have also got two John Downie which I was assured by a fruit expert at Pershore College
was a brilliant fertilizer through several flowering bands.
I used to have two very large, and I mean large, Perry Pear trees each with three varieties on them and all different but sadly in a gale they both decided to fall and one took a 60ft polytunnel with it! Since their demise the pollination has not been quite the same so they must have paid their part.
You certainly need several pear trees in order to get good pollination and a single Concord would find life full of difficulties. I think that one of the best pollinators is Conference, which although is said to be self fertile certainly improves with being fertilized by another variety.
JB.
There seems to be a strict pecking order with Pears.
In my orchard they are planted in line with the prevailing wind beginning with the earlies. Having said that you must know the parentage of any hybrid
as they do not pollinate anything with the same lineage.
Paul Jasper is in Leominster so only 15 miles away from me. I must admit that I have never bought anything from him as I buy from a commercial nursery in Tenbury Wells. (who's name escapes me at the present moment!!)
I was advised many moons ago to plant Crab Apples in the hedge and I have three wild varieties that I have grown and I have also got two John Downie which I was assured by a fruit expert at Pershore College
was a brilliant fertilizer through several flowering bands.
I used to have two very large, and I mean large, Perry Pear trees each with three varieties on them and all different but sadly in a gale they both decided to fall and one took a 60ft polytunnel with it! Since their demise the pollination has not been quite the same so they must have paid their part.
You certainly need several pear trees in order to get good pollination and a single Concord would find life full of difficulties. I think that one of the best pollinators is Conference, which although is said to be self fertile certainly improves with being fertilized by another variety.
JB.
Hi Johnboy,
The existing mature trees (all Bramleys) are big. The younger apple is probably a half standard. The plums that we fitted into corners before we bought the rest of the land are St Julien.
The old fence was ripped out and the first new section went up yesterday and this added 3/4 acre to the orchard. (one of our 3 dogs is so convinced that they are going to be in trouble for escaping that she is staying in the house!). But we bought 7 acres in all. It's in several small fields and we could move into the next field if we want.
We plan to start with the 3/4 acre, which will also have some soft fruit at one end, and then add some more when we've got that under control. We thought we would go for standards or half standards. Or maybe a mix as some varities seem hard to get as standards. Would a mixture look very odd?
The existing mature trees (all Bramleys) are big. The younger apple is probably a half standard. The plums that we fitted into corners before we bought the rest of the land are St Julien.
The old fence was ripped out and the first new section went up yesterday and this added 3/4 acre to the orchard. (one of our 3 dogs is so convinced that they are going to be in trouble for escaping that she is staying in the house!). But we bought 7 acres in all. It's in several small fields and we could move into the next field if we want.
We plan to start with the 3/4 acre, which will also have some soft fruit at one end, and then add some more when we've got that under control. We thought we would go for standards or half standards. Or maybe a mix as some varities seem hard to get as standards. Would a mixture look very odd?
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peter
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Gascoines Scarlet is a lovely eater, quite old and when ripe is green, yellow and red.
Sops-in-wine is another lovely old variety, deep maroon skin and flesh tinged red.
Catshead is a fine old cooker with a distinctive shape.
For something different try a medlar.
Not much beats a proper orchard.
Sops-in-wine is another lovely old variety, deep maroon skin and flesh tinged red.
Catshead is a fine old cooker with a distinctive shape.
For something different try a medlar.
Not much beats a proper orchard.
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.
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Jenny Green
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Ashmead's Kernel if often touted as the best flavoured apple, but I've never tried or grown it myself.
(Formerly known as 'Organic Freak')
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
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peter
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Blenheim Orange has a distinctive and fresh taste.
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.
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I think we are pretty sure about what we've got - we were told the trees were Bramleys and they certainly look and cook like Bramleys. The eater was unidentified and we took a sample to an Apple Day for identification and they reckoned Charles Ross. There's a crab the other side of the house - pretty sure it's John Downie, the same as the one I planted in our last garden because it was said to be the best culinary crab so double plus if it is also an ace pollinator. We also have bees and there will certainly be other apples in flight radius. Most people seem to have some kind of apples. We've also got some hedging to plant and we could include other crabs in that.
I looked at www.jaspertrees.co.uk and we were recommended to go to Matthews at Tenbury Wells which may be the nursery Johnboy has used.
Thanks to others for other sugestions as well. Has anybody tried the Ashmeads Kernel?
I looked at www.jaspertrees.co.uk and we were recommended to go to Matthews at Tenbury Wells which may be the nursery Johnboy has used.
Thanks to others for other sugestions as well. Has anybody tried the Ashmeads Kernel?
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Geoff
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We have an Ashmeads Kernel but it is only in its second full season, growing nicely but no fruit as yet.
You ask about bush, half-standard etc., the choice really depends on how you are going to look after the ground underneath the orchard. The usual advice is to start with 4' diameter of clear ground round each tree but if you are planting a significant orchard, doing other development projects on you new ground and perhaps working that gives you a significant maintenance work load. I have used 18" squares for my more recent trees (don't forget you get better root development planting in square holes rather than round) after planting my originals straight in the grass, I didn't think they established very well and I damaged some with the strimmer but the newer ones have got away really well. If you are going to scythe, strim or use livestock to keep the grass down the layout and the tree form is not too important. I now use a ride on mower and am forever scratching my head on branches so for this form of control a bit of height and some symmetry in the layout are helpful.
Whatever you do underplant with daffodils - nothing nicer than an orchard full of daffs in the Spring.
You ask about bush, half-standard etc., the choice really depends on how you are going to look after the ground underneath the orchard. The usual advice is to start with 4' diameter of clear ground round each tree but if you are planting a significant orchard, doing other development projects on you new ground and perhaps working that gives you a significant maintenance work load. I have used 18" squares for my more recent trees (don't forget you get better root development planting in square holes rather than round) after planting my originals straight in the grass, I didn't think they established very well and I damaged some with the strimmer but the newer ones have got away really well. If you are going to scythe, strim or use livestock to keep the grass down the layout and the tree form is not too important. I now use a ride on mower and am forever scratching my head on branches so for this form of control a bit of height and some symmetry in the layout are helpful.
Whatever you do underplant with daffodils - nothing nicer than an orchard full of daffs in the Spring.
Hi Heyjude,
F Matthews was the name I couldn't remember and they now are open to the general public whereas in my buying time they were not.
I feel that probably the best rootstock for you would be MM106 which is a half standard. Standard trees are fine if you have got the right equipment to harvest and in time this would entail some rather large ladders. I have two full standard Bramleys that I inherited and can never harvest properly because I would have to have an enormous pole ladder solely for picking these apples. I pick what I can from a double aluminium ladder and the Fieldfares have the rest. All of my plantings have been MM106 and some 25 years on they are quite large enough and I get masses of fruit and certainly more than I can cope with for myself so a great amount go to friends around the district.
Being half standards they are accessible and mowing round them is not really a problem.
You will find that Matthews have a stock of really decent trees for sale. I am not saying that Paul Jasper hasn't so it may be just as well to check out both before investing. I looked at the recommended planting distances and added 4ft in both directions and to me I have got it fairly balanced.
I have got Daffodils all of the dwarf varieties like Tete-a-Tete, Jonquil and the like under the trees and I also have hundreds of Cowslips and Primroses in the hedge. To propagate the Cowslips I wait until the seeds are ripe and ready to drop the simply give the stalk and head a smart backhander and it is amazing what effect this has.
I do hope this helps you.
JB.
F Matthews was the name I couldn't remember and they now are open to the general public whereas in my buying time they were not.
I feel that probably the best rootstock for you would be MM106 which is a half standard. Standard trees are fine if you have got the right equipment to harvest and in time this would entail some rather large ladders. I have two full standard Bramleys that I inherited and can never harvest properly because I would have to have an enormous pole ladder solely for picking these apples. I pick what I can from a double aluminium ladder and the Fieldfares have the rest. All of my plantings have been MM106 and some 25 years on they are quite large enough and I get masses of fruit and certainly more than I can cope with for myself so a great amount go to friends around the district.
Being half standards they are accessible and mowing round them is not really a problem.
You will find that Matthews have a stock of really decent trees for sale. I am not saying that Paul Jasper hasn't so it may be just as well to check out both before investing. I looked at the recommended planting distances and added 4ft in both directions and to me I have got it fairly balanced.
I have got Daffodils all of the dwarf varieties like Tete-a-Tete, Jonquil and the like under the trees and I also have hundreds of Cowslips and Primroses in the hedge. To propagate the Cowslips I wait until the seeds are ripe and ready to drop the simply give the stalk and head a smart backhander and it is amazing what effect this has.
I do hope this helps you.
JB.