Kitchen Garden Forum

And the same to you! I hear you cry but.......

On the Chelsea Show programs Carole has a Sambucus Niger on one of the entries she was looking at - I have one too but didnt know what it was.

In the hope that I can propogate it I have just googled the name and am told it is actually just an Elderberry!

I'm not sure this is entirely right, though it does have elder qualities (shape of flower heads etc) it shot up from under the ground forming a large spreading plant now about 5ft tall. It isnt a tree though and I'm expecting it to die back to bare earth in the winter.

Could any of you knowledgable perople through any light on this and especially how to propogate (cutting, division??)and if it is Elder related are the berries edible.

Very grateful for any help

Regards

David

Hi David

I have posted a link below to Farmyard Nurseries - they had the stand that had the Sambucus on it. I know this, because my sister works there and was at Chelsea! I suggest you give them a ring - they are very helpful, and will be able to answer all your questions. Good luck!

Jenny

http://www.farmyardnurseries.co.uk/

Wow! what a small world.

Thanks very much

D

Hi David

Sambucus is the genus Elder. There are various species and cultivars used in the garden trade. Some are based around S. migra, some S. racemosa or S. canadensis

Can you give more details of yours - i.e leaf colour and shape. Why do you think it will die back? Has it done this before? Sambucus canadensis - American Elder does this - it is a suckering shrub which often dies back. S. nigra usually grows into a small tree.

Elder is relatively easy to strike from cuttings - I have had sucess with big hardwood cuttings, but a greenwood cutting might root.

Mole

Dear David, you are correct that it is from the Elder family.
It could be one of a few, of the dark leaved elders.
It won't die down in the winter by the way.
If you want a lot of new foliage you can cut it back in early spring to two or three buds from the ground, or if you want to keep it as bush cut out some of the older stems each year.

You can eat the berries as long as you cook them.
Hardwood cuttings are the easiest to take for these.

Hi David,
Here Sambucus nigra is treated as a weed and they are oiched out on sight. As Mole says there are several varieties, in fact at least 15 other than Nigra. The Blackbirds will end up giving you more plants than you need and as I say here they are weeds and a Bl***y nuisance. If you take my advice I would dig it out and burn it!
JB.

Well there is a mix of replies, thanks for taking the trouble.

This is a new house for us and we have quite a mature shrubbery. This plant just started up one day and grew quite rapidly with a spreading habit, it then put out flower heads which have mostly gone over now. Just lately it has started going up in three large branches to currently about 3ft each. Today I notice there are sprouts in the leaf axils like tomatoes put out.

Overall it is very dark bronze, some green on the new growths with white/pale pink flowers. The leaves are very spiky and for shape and colour very like the Dahlia Dark Angels. They are set in four equal pairs along the main leaf stem topped with a point, with each pair then mimicking this layout.

I was expecting it to die back simply because it wasnt there when we moved in so I thought it was one of those perenials that did that. Perhaps the previous owners cut it down in the winter?

Hi David,

That's a near perfect desciption of the Sambucus Nigra that we have in our garden, and yes, I think the previous owner must have pruned it in the winter, that's exactly what my 'Pruner's Bible' says.

'Routine pruning - Elders need regular annual pruning if they are to produce the most attractive foliage. Remove the older wood and encourage production of new shoots. Cut out weak, thin shoots.

In winter, coppice the plant by cutting back the year old stems as close to the old branch framework as possible, leaving 1- to 2-inch stubs of growth from which the new shoots will emerge.

Alternatively, remove the older growth and cut year-old stems by one-third. If the old stubs of growth become overcrowded, remove them with a small pruning saw.

These resilient plants can grow up to 10 feet in a single season, and in the right conditions they often form large clumps as they establish and spread. The stems are hollow, and in a wet season some may bend and topple over as the base of the stem collapses - these shoots often form roots where they touch the soil.'

Hi David,
What you have is not the bog standard Sambucus nigra but sounds more like Sambucus nigra 'Guincho Purple'
which the Blackbirds will also spread for you.
Personally I would still heave it out but I suppose in a garden it is more controllable. I have five acres for it to be spread into so at the first sign they are 'outed'.
JB.

Thanks Belinda thats very helpful.

Johnboy, I can see your problem but Ive never seen thos thing before and it is very impressive in the garden. I guess if I cut it back as Belinda says it will be controllable.

David