Dem Pesky Slugs - Nematodes Anyone?!

[RAREBREDCHICK]

OK, having had a really serious problem last year with slugs and snails and trying almost everything, with varying degrees of success. This year I decided to splash out on a 3 part treatment of Nematodes. Exspensive, but I thought worth it when I get a bumper harvest!

Not so. My first batch took 3 weeks to turn up, with much chasing from me, as web site said 3 days (and they had my money!). So it was back to gritting around plants, going out at night with my 2 rocks, beer trap (what a waste)! Sort of keeping them at bay. When my Nematodes finally arrived I followed the instructions to the letter and held back my runner and french beans for a further 7 days, so they would be protected. How wrong I was, I managed to plant them out 9 days after the nematodes where introduced and had lost the lot within 3 nights, despite going back to the other methods as well after the first night.

So, I planted some more in pots, but I have been unable to plant them out as the slugs are very much in evidence and are now eating my peas and sweet peas. So, I started counting down the days until the next delivery of Nematodes was due. After 6 weeks and 2 days I had to chase the supplier, who sent them out the same day. Naturally I have put them on asap, the same evening they arrived. So fingers crossed. I dont know if it is appropriate to name and shame the supplier, but I bought the 18 week programme that their blurb says they send out automatically, so I dont have to worry.

This is supposed to be the deluxe of organic slug control! As it is quite exspensive, I am dissapointed and now waiting until the week is up to plant out my second batch of beans and third of peas. At the moment I would be much better of finacially buying organic veg from a local farm shop!

Whilst writing the Blackbirds and Thrushs have done an admirable job re the snails and the sparrows clean my roses of greenfly every morning!

Anyone else used Nematodes? How did you get on?
I just feel I have wasted money at this stage as I have lost more plants than I did last year and spent a lot more on slug control to little avail.

Advice/experiences please!

[Jenny Green]

I'm sorry to hear of your problems - it must be very frustrating!
I haven't used nematodes before but I've heard they need a minimum temperature to be effective. Could it have been too cold for them? Even the 'greenest' supplier can exaggerate their claims about the effectiveness of their products.
I would look at the reasons why you're having such a problem with slugs and tackle the environment if possible. If these slugs are eating the foliage they're probably living above ground in some nice moist spot during the day. Where could they be hiding? Do you use a lot of mulch? They could be living in it.

[newveggiegrower]

It's so annoying to have slugs and snails eat new plants! I lost 3 basil plants which I had grown from seed (and I'm not very good with this seed business yet, so I was extremely proud of the basil).

But I have had very good results with Nematodes - no slugs at all but still lots of snails. I wonder whether results might vary depending on soil and moisture.

I found traps a waste of money, very disappointing. I have been told "growing success" slug pellets are "relatively" safe. But a toad has recently moved in to a corner shaded by pumpkin leaves - and I understand he might eat some snails - so I don't want to risk it.

[Monika]

I'm afraid we have had to resort to non-biological control, that is, use metaldehyde slug killer. Nematodes are no good here because they don't kill snails and with the garden and the allotment being surrounded by limestone dry stone walls, it's snails we suffer from rather than slugs. But I use the liquid version only, water it onto paths rather than growing grounds or plants and then collect the "bodies" in the morning. I do feel guilty because we try to garden organically but the snails would just demolish anything we put out. In mid-May I sowed a bed of mixed hardy annuals, they came up and then, almost overnight, ALL the seedlings disappeared - just bare ground now!

[madasafish]

I'm with Monika on this . With wet fields on two sides there are effectively an infinite number of slugs AND snails available.
French marigolds, asters, lettuce,sprouts, beans and tomatoes (ripe) are their favourites. (they like young goji bushes as well...)
I use blue slug pellets selectively around the at risk plants.. and nowhere else.

Yes we have frogs but no hedgehogs - last I saw were killed by foxes or badgers...- so relatively few wild animals at risk (no thrushes for miles..)

[Johnboy]

Monica and MAAF,
I have used slug pellets with great success and I have a thriving wildlife scene here.
I have Hedgehogs, Frogs, Toads and both Grass and Adder snakes and I have yet to find anything has suffered from my use of pellets. Birds simply do not touch them.
I am very successful with Carrots here but if I didn't use Slug Pellets I wouldn't get any.
The Slug Pellets attract the Keeled Slugs away from the crop. With Carrots I do not scatter the pellets I place them every 3-4 inches down the row both sides. I wear Vinyl gloves when handling the pellets.
I place pellets around the periphery of my Bean bed and again have no problems.
JB.

[Mole]

From 'The Organic Gardening Catalogue':

'ADVANCED SLUG KILLER

The slug pellets we've all been waiting for. Safe for children and pets, birds, hedgehogs and other wildlife - killing only slugs and snails.
After remaining effective for several weeks in both wet and dry conditions, the pellets based on ferrous phosphate will break down to iron and phosphate nutrients as part of garden soil.'

We've been using 'Advanced' (Ferrous Phosphate) pellets for 3 years now, and find them more effective than the old ('bad'!) type. They certainly last much MUCH longer once wet.

Growing Success is the high street make - £3.95 around these parts, but strangely £6.95 from 'The Organic Gardening Catalogue'!

If you want them at a third of the former price (per kg), one can buy a sackful for about £60 at agrochemical suppliers.

Mole

[Johnboy]

Hi Mole,
Sad to say that the pellets you mention are not anywhere as effective as normal pellets.
The selling points used are to a very high degree are dishonest. Normal slug pellets were reformulated some time back now and the harmful ones are no longer available for sale to normal home gardeners.
Your posting kind of reinforces what I have been saying for a long time. Add the word organic and the price at least doubles for a less effective product.
Seriously I have what amounts to a captive Hedgehog population because of my rabbit fencing and those that I have on the plot are the descendants of those
on the plot when the fence went in 25 years ago.
With the fence my plot is a kind of Eco-system on it's own.
JB.

[Mole]

I'm glad to hear about your hedgehogs Johnboy - sadly they seem to be rare around here nowadays - I put it down to road traffic - they are great travellers.

Re the slug pellets though, I'm sorry to disagree Johnboy. But, having used the new type of pellet for 3 seasons now we have found them no less effective than the old type, whilst lasting much longer in moist conditions.

I stated that the pellets are expensive from 'The Organic Gardening Catalogue' which is expensive for everything. I don't think they are expensive per se - they last longer than the old type so you have to allow for that.

The selling points used are to a very high degree are dishonest.

What points are dishonest to a very high degree?
The only selling point I have seen claimed for Ferrous phosphate pellets is that they are less harmful than metaldehyde. This is true - all authorities agree to that. Whether metaldehyde does cause extensive damage to wildlife is another argument which is not proven either way. Methiocarb certainly was harmful, and rightly should have been withdrawn.

Have you truthfully, actually given the new style pellets a fair trial, or just doing the same old anti-organic tub thumping thing?

Cheers

Mole

[Johnboy]

Hi Mole,
I have not tried them at all and it is one of my neighbours who used them and lost just about everything he had planted out. However yesterday I purchased the some for myself at the price of £3.99. and will certainly give them a trial. I hastened to add that my neighbour is an established horticulturalist and is well qualified so I have no doubts that it was used properly.
I agree that Metaldehyde can be harmful if ingested but the way it is represented is that all animals will automatically make a Beeline for it which is not the case. When a slug or snail has taken the bait they very soon show the effects and the evidence here points to the fact that the wildlife do not touch these infected specimens. The birds leave them alone and with the regards to children I am sure that if a child were to come to harm from the use of them the media would have an absolute field day but to date I have not seen or heard a single word.
In an experiment some time back a Hedgehog ate up to 200 slugs that were effected by Metaldehyde in one night and it was not affected at all. I agree that if a very young child were to ingest a pellet there certainly could be cause to be alarmed.
I want to be able to use something that works and normal slug pellets have always managed to do this for me so I will do an experiment around the periphery of my bean bed with Ferric Phosphate pellets but put a ring inside of Metaldehyde. If I find any dead slugs on the normal slug pellets it will mean that Ferric Phosphate will have not done the job properly. I will report back to you in a couple of weeks because my beans are due to be planted out in the next week. We are late planting out here because we get frost up to the end of the second week in June.
The main crop Potatoes here are actually second earlies sown as main crop because of the shorter season.
The potatoes are just appearing now in the last couple of days and will be harvested in mid to late September and depending upon weather into October.
Literally millions of normal slug pellets will be used on the crop if the agronomist finds Keeled Slugs to be a problem yet we still abound in wildlife.
I do not find that the conventional slug pellets represent the hazard that is portrayed of them and the Advanced Slug Pellet manufactures are using the so called hazards of the Metaldehyde to sell their product.
JB.

[newveggiegrower]

Just to say I have found your debate very interesting - and I shall do a bit more research as a result. I am very tired of nailing copper to my beds and borders (very expensive although it does seem to work). I would love to use just a few slug pellets against the snails. (I too am surrounded by dry stone walls).

[Weed]

Have you tried wheat bran around your plants?
..I saw some lovely brassicas earlier in the week that have been treated with a collar of bran each...definitely no slug damage there

[Mole]

Hi Johnboy

I agree - I don't think that metaldehyde is a big a problem as some make out, except to greedy, stupid labradors

Are you sure that your experiment will be conclusive? I find that slugs can travel a distance after poisoning with any pellets before dying - how will you know which pellet killed them? why not risk some beans with ferrous phosphate and give both types of pellet equal density?

I think you are on clay? We are on a sandy soil here, so may not suffer as badly - especially with potatoes. We only use pellets in propagating areas and for some early sowings/plantings.

We do have the odd slug on lettuces, especially after rain, but they rarely do much damage, and only one customer has ever complained and that was a restaurant - 3 years ago.

We tend to mostly grow second earlies as blight nearly always comes so early here - we only grow Pink fir apple as maincrop as they are so popular.

Mole

[Johnboy]

Hi Mole,
A very valid point and I shall do as you suggest. Thank you for pointing out my obvious lapse of common sense.
I do not have any clay whatsoever here but used to live in Hertfordshire which is renown for it.
I do have quite a slug population here because I am very rural and although I can prevent rabbits entering my plot but slugs come and go at their own will. I have put a concrete path between my vegetable area and the hedge. The other side of the hedge is a 4ft headland which we are suppose now by law to leave to nature so it is a slugs paradise.
They invade my place through the hedge and although my favourite lettuce are Cos I dislike Little Gem and when the nursery closed I was left with thousands and I mean thousands of seeds and I now germinate them and plant them betwixt the concrete path and the hedge as a sacrificial slug barrier and between the lettuces and the path I put slug pellets so those who become more adventurous and want to turn their noses up at the lettuces are generally caught by the pellets. Sadly this doesn't catch them all so although I use pellets (metaldehyde) and mainly they are used in areas that are protected with netting or fleece so to a great degree the wildlife are protected. I feel that the adverse publicity that Metaldehyde Slug Pellets have had was blown totally out of proportion and if used sensibly they are an exceedingly good weapon in the gardeners armoury.
When I produced vegetable plants for the commercial, retail and mail order markets the plants were tunnel raised and the benches all stood in flower buckets with six inches of salt water in them and it was amazing how many slugs attempted and failed to get to my seedlings.
I have tried very hard to be responsible with any chemical that I have ever used and I feel that I have had the best out of them and also retain all the wildlife. The best of both worlds!
JB.

[madasafish]

I have to agree with John. My dead slugs and snails seem to litter the garden like scrifices to a pagan god with the garden as its altar:-)

I've yet to see any dead animal /bird in my garden whose death was inexplicable except due to slug pellets: in other words there is zero evidence to my eyes that slug pellets kill anything else.. (our last cat dies of old age at 14 and has not been replaced due to love of birds..).

IF slug pellets do so much damage I would expect to see dead frogs (none) or birds in the morning...Our frog colony in the pond does very nicely amongst our strawberries in late summer...