Kitchen Garden Forum

Hi all.
I have a fantastically prolific Loganberry (Essentially a Blackberry/Raspberry thornless cross), in the garden fruit patch, from which I have successfully raised a lot of young, now fruiting plants. It can get rampant, but not as invasive as brambles, as canes die off every year.

I planted one on my allotment, and that is now going great guns too. I've also given away lots of the plants to friends/neighbours, all reporting good results.

So, I'm thinking of planting a couple or 3 in amongst the brambly, scrubby, unmaintained hedgerow which forms the boundary of my/our lottie(s), to fend for itself. I would only ever approach it at harvesting time - free fuit, with no effort from me! Now, I would never actually go for a walk in the countryside and plant one; however, the hedgerow is totally uncared for, and could be considered "wild". My fear would be that it may just settle in and gradually start spreading all over the local vicinity. Particularly if I move on, and it's allowed to spread anywhere it wants. Technically, I suppose it's a man-made hybrid, so I shouldn't do this, but then come my dilemmas:-

1. Could such a raspberry/blackberry cross occur in nature anyway? hence this would be semi-"natural" and hypothetically could have occured anywhere, so I could actually be planting a "native" species?
2. It's actually less painful and invasive than bramblesand more productive than the small Dewberry-type bramble.
3. I don't want a Japanese knotweed-type situation, introducing an "alien" species which then goes on to take over the known universe.
4. No-one seems overly concerned about the oil-seed rape plants which sprout up in every layby and small patch of earth in the countryside.

Just wondering what you all think.
cheers, GaGa

I see nothing wrong with this, I think it was a natural hybrid that was recognised and propagated rather than a "designed" cross anyway.
What I do object to is someone I know puts coloured primulas near primroses because she thinks they are boring.

That's a interesting dilemma GaGa. I suppose my own thought process would be that if the hedgerow already contains brambles then planting a couple more would probably not make a lot of difference, especially if they die back each winter. I have a two year old loganberry plant in my garden and as last year it only bore 3 fruit, I am encouraged by your reports that it ultimately can be quite prolofic. And if you're worried about it spreading, sooner or later if you move on, somebody else in your allotment will suddenly discover this wonderful wild free harvest, wonder how it got there, but be very grateful. And if a two legged human doesn't find it, I'm sure the two legged feathered variety will. And if the Council or somebody else eventually arrive to trim back the hedgerow, the loganberries will get a pruning which will stop them growing out of control. Go for it, I'd say ! (But probably somebody else will come on here and condemn my irresponsible attitude).

Hi Geoff,
I rather think that you are not correct in your assumption that it was a 'natural cross' because I think the Loganberry was the first successful of a very long chain of hybridizing experiments done in the late 1800's.
I feel that it would be entirely unethical to plant them in the wild. There must be thousand upon thousand Loganberries but have not heard of one crossing with anything 'naturally'. Oh the birds would love them I'm sure but what could follow is a disaster.
JB.

Johnboy

With the greatest respect, what about the ethics of promoting GM crops (about which you have posted a lengthy article in another forum) which will cross with wild species, or just escape? I quote you: "what could follow is a disaster".

By the way, I am entirely with you in opposing planting cultivated plants in the wild.

Alan

"A loganberry is a cross between raspberry and a blackberry of US stock. Named after Judge Logan who found one growing in the wild. The fruits
are bright red."
I suppose it does introduce American genes so ultimately we would get a plant that wanted to rule the world.

Hi Alan,
As regards GM I would prefer to answer that in the other forum and will do so willingly but not here.
My information with regards Judge James H. Logan was that he was a very keen amateur horticulturalist and although the Loganberry was part and parcel of a hybridization programme which went wrong.
The reason why I say that it could be disastrous it because it can seriously affect the existing wild brambles and ultimately change the fruit in that part of the district. It is possible where it is on the allotment but less likely. To just plant things out in the wild has no science behind it and therefore the results are totally unpredictable.
JB.

we have a lot of wild blackberries in our hedges and a well established himalayam giant cultivated blackberry in the garden , the birds love the hg and spread it everywhere which is an ongoing problem but it does make a potent wine!!. several years ago i planted several loganberries in gaps in the hedges they get pruned when the hedges are trimmed and dont seem to be spreading . as a plant ive not found logans to be that vigerous a grower, certainly slower than the wild blackberies and nowhere near the himalayan.

Interesting stuff.
Thanks for the Wikipedia link Alan - I should have thought of that.

Mine appears to be one of the hybrid hybrids - it's a thornless variety, and unlike Richard P's is VERY vigorous - several canes exceeded 7ft growth by the end of last season. These would have fruited this year, had they not been pruned back. The fruit is so prolific, I don't bother netting the canes, the birds and mice can have as much as they want, and still leave more than enough for us.

It appears to have no effect on the Autumn or Summer raspberries, or culivated or wild blackberries it's currently planted adjacent to. Seedlings raised from the raspberries and blackberries seem to be coming true unaffected.

I think I may hack back the existing thorny scrub/brambles in the hedge on the allotment, and plant a couple on MY side of the hedgreow, and let them fend for themselves.

Thanks all.
Gaga

Loganberries are maybe not quite as prolific, but have you ever been to Ireland or the west coast of Scotland and seen the rhododendron?
it's a major problem on some of the west coast estates, they have to keep chopping it down and burning it, even so I am not sure they are keeping up with it.
It does look pretty though.
Kev