Kitchen Garden Forum

Well - we seem to have avoided this so far and - at the risk of upsetting a few people, I have to say what an excellent production of programmes there has been so far.

Apart from showing our friend (and other) Monty Don in a particularly good light, it has really highlighted the despair, despondence and dependence that is associated with drug addiction. Any of these individuals could be us or our relatives and I have found this programme a humbling experience.

Many of my 30 years plus in mental health services has included specialist care in addictions and I thought I had heard all of the reasons and excuses, but this is another challenge for all of us.

I look forward to the rest of the series and the potential projects that may result as a consequence of Monty's convictions.

Dear Tigger, i don't really know what to say on this subject, apart from i find it absolutely frightning the amount of drugs that the users say are about.
Anyone or anything that helps this appalling situation must be a good thing surely, despite what others may think.
I'm certainly with you on this one Tigger.

I'm quite enjoying this programme. What people fail to understand is that it's not that easy to stay off the drugs. The addicts lose everything when they stop. Friends, a support network (even if it's a bad network) and the only "stability" that a lot of them have ever known. I see people like this everyday and it is more frequent then you'll imagine. My daughter has been offered drugs but told them to sod off telling them "do I look like a mug?!"

It's because she's a sensible girl that she turns them down. Otherwise, there but for the grace of God.......

I know how planting stuff helps me to feel better and how eating good food does too. It's a long road ahead of them and I hope it works out for the addicts involved.

What a great project that Monty has created he must be applauded for trying to help make a difference to their lives, it is a shame that the locals at the market in last nights episode did not appreciate and support them, infact they were taking the p...!! out of them. It could have easily been one of their sons or daughters in need of help, I bet they would not have been laughing at them then. As a parent of a 10yr old boy it is frightening to think what the situation may be like in 5/10 yrs time. Unfortunately I fear for the future of our children and grandchildren if they get the chance to be born as our modern soceity and singleminded cut throat way of life with no respect for each other and also politicians are trying their hardest to kill the planet and do nothing to stop the younger generation from killing themselves off, just so that the rich can get richer and richer!! god help them.

I once asked a heroin user what it felt like to take the stuff, she said that within minutes of taking it, the effects are phenomenal, it is the best painkiller, she said for all ailments, physical and emotional, after a few days, the user becomes chronically biologically addicted, and reliant on the rush that it gives, living from fix to fix.

Of course I am not writing an advertisement for this and other stuff, but, the compulstion to take it is stronger than anything most people know, and it can happen to anyone's child from any walk of life.

Monty's project is great and the issues seem to be quite good, even here in Somerset I could go out and within ten minutes find places where Cannabis, speed and all kinds of stuff would be sold, some of it is cheap and some of it is of such poor quality that it can make you very ill, or have no effect at all, it is behind most petty crimes too.

I think this problem is more widespread than the public imagine, and the sooner it gets a higher profile and a more sympathetic attitude from the public the better.

Outdoor projects are good because they enable drug users to find other highs, that are of course free, and not harmful.

(Compo now stepping down off the soap box)

I can understand why they get hooked on the effects of heroin. I have, on many occasions, had intravenous diamorphine (heroin) medically given in hospital. Once it hits your brain it is a fantastic feeling. You feel warm, calm, relaxed and vertually painfree. I've had the stuff in morphine pumps after surgery, the effect being the same. This is the pure stuff. You are taken off it, if the medical team see fit, after 3 days because you are now addicted. So, whilst still feeling pretty grotty, you go through mild drug withdrawal as the heroin leaves your system. Not nice.

On the streets it is cut with shake and vac, bicarbonate of soda, talcum powder, flour and God knows what else. It is poor quality and the addicts need more and more to feel "normal" It's all very sad.

As a magistrate, I am so conscious of the huge numbers of young people in court for robbing and burglaring and mugging and shop-lifting simply in order to fund their drug habit. And so many of them look so ill, it seems so awful to send them to prison, but they can't afford fines, and they are too ill and too chaotic to do a community order.
Personally, I would so much rather have these people, who are undoubtedly ill with addiction and usually have a mental illness as well, dealt with by the health services rather than the prison services. However, these need to be properly funded. Currently the clinics are desperately over-subscribed; one girl said she had been told there was an 18-month waiting list.
I do agree with many commentators that addicts should be able to get their drug on prescription for e.g £5 a week. That would mean they would not need to commit crimes; as a bonus, all the money saved in police investigations and criminal procedures and building new prisons could pay for the drugs, and you would still have millions left over for other purposes. Also it would take addicts out of the criminal supply orbit, plus their drugs would be properly made and not cut with other substances. And of course women would not need to work in the dangerous world of pimps and prostitution.
Alison.

I don't think up until the last few weeks i had any idea to the horrors of drug addiction.
With Monty Dons programme, and with the horrendous murders that have occured in Ipswich due to the ladies of the night having to fund their addiction to drugs.
To me it has really come as a saddening shock, but the thing that i found hardest to believe, is that these young girls are still prepared to go out at night after all the warnings, it really proves what desparate measures they will endure to fulfil their drug addiction, knowing that they could end up getting murdered.

God bless them all.

At last Alison, someone who speaks sense.

Not only would legalizing drugs bring the benefits that you have mentioned but it would also remove the reason for most of the gun related crime in the UK and end the import of Turkish and Yardie gangs who use them to try to control their networks. The ramifications would be of enormouse benefit to everybody except the pushers who would lose their cash flow overnight.

This idea however doomed to failure as the hand wringing liberals at the heart of government havent got the balls or the common sense to implement such a thing. All that happens is the junkies get slapped wrists and put back into the community where they are a risk to themselves and the community at large.

Having been burgled by a drug user to feed his habit I assure you that I was less than impressed to find out that he had just been given a supervision order by the Magistrate despite pleading guilty to over 30 other burglaries as well as several muggings. No doubt that magistrate found it "so awful" to jail him, that he didnt. The upshot being he was able to rob me. I feel lucky as many people fare far worse at the hands of these people.

I understand that it isn't ideal to jail such people but this has to be balanced with the safety of the public who's lives they rip apart and being burgled I assure you was a real violation of my person and a place I considered safe.

Prats like Pete Doherty and his piss taking of Magistrates by continually being arrested for class 1 drug posession and then amazingly being let off dont help my perseption of our societies guardians who are either unable or unwilling to protect idiots from themselves and the likes of me from them.

Perhaps our political leaders should stop reading about their utopian ideal world in the Guardian and get a reality check. Living in big houses in "good" areas as most of them do they just haven't got a clue how their actions affect others.

Your comments are echoed by Barry Beelzebub in his latest column, with some scary facts:

"THANKS TO the miracles of technology, I can now go back and find out just when it was that I first floated the idea that heroin should be given away free on street corners.

It was, in fact, September 2001. So it’s only taken five years for the politicians and the constabulary to catch up with me.

It really is a simple argument. As Howard Roberts, the deputy chief constable of Nottinghamshire, told an ACPO conference last week, of every 10 crimes committed in this country, six are drugs-related – burglaries, muggings and shoplifting carried out to feed a habit.

(Three of the other four are probably innocent, middle class people being caught by speed cameras, but that’s a different argument.)

I would say that 60 per cent is a modest estimate. After all, there are comparatively few car thefts these days and the big armed robberies have been superceded by identity theft and internet fraud. (Did you buy shares in shredder manufacturers like I told you to a couple of years ago? And are you now piling into pub patio heater manufacturers, ready for the smoking ban?)

I tell you what; in a novel departure for this column, let’s look at some facts, shall we? And bear in mind that these are official figures. Around 30 tons of heroin is smuggled into Britain each year. This feeds 300,000 addicts. To fund that addiction, the average addict needs to find £15,000 a year. To net £15k, he commits crimes costing £45,000. And that all adds up to an average 432 crimes a year committed by each and every heroin addict.

It’s quite gobsmacking. So can we agree that if we remove the need to pay for Class A drugs like heroin, we take away the need to steal? We also destroy the empires of the drugs barons who currently control distribution while dabbling in other kinds of criminality in their spare time.

So, at a stroke, we reduce crime by between 60 and 70 per cent. What would any government – or enlightened society – give for that? True, there’d be a few casualties along the way, but anyone stupid enough to overdose on free dope isn’t going to be much of a loss anyway. It makes such overwhelming common sense that I’m amazed no-one’s had the guts to do it before.

Is there a politician brave enough to have a pop? Maybe Mr Brown is the man. After all, he’s not yet managed to find a way to tax it."

I thought that this thread would have had more miles in it but it appears that the bleeding heart hand wringers are out at some quango canape fest.

They were nice canapes though Piglet
No , to be serious I do believe that the way to go is to hit drug pushers where it hurts - in the wallets. If the drugs are given on perscription then the need to have an underground supply goes. There is no point selling if no-one needs to buy. Crime is reduced, the addicts can be monitored and helped if they want to get off the drugs, peoples lives will improve because they wont be the victims of robberies and muggings ...... the list goes on. It seems to be a no brainer
Hopefully there will be some good to come from the dreadful murders in Ipswich. It has highlighted the terrible vicious circle which people get into when addicted to drugs. The public are being made aware of the extent to which drugs pervade society and this can only be a good thing
I`ll shut up now and get ready to watch the next "growing out of trouble". Very enlightening so far
Seedling

Hmmnnn. I never thought this could be anything other than the fact that 60% of crime is drug related.

I'm really impresed with the Monty Don scheme and would be happy to develop that programme with our MH service.

Mrs P works in MH and our services run a small nursery in the grounds of the Towers hospital called Linnaeus. It has adult mentally ill people helping out rather than those that have addled their own brains with drugs.

Its good to see such projects and they produce quality plants at a very good price.

when and where is this on and how many have i missed?