Kitchen Garden Forum

Hi to everyone,

Can anybody recommend a good climbing french please


Regards

Kevin

Hi Kevin -
In my opinion, "Cobra" and "Cherokee Trail of Tears" are the ONLY climbers worth their space. Both very prolific and reliable, I find.
Regards, Lyn

I agree with Lyn on the Cobra climbing french beans Kevin, they are very good.
I have never tried Cherokee trail of tears before, so might give them a go next year Lyn.

Kind regards Old Herbaceous.

Theres no fool like an old fool.

Kevin,
I can second Lyn's choice and add a third variety that has been outstanding for me it is Diamant. It is another black seeded variety. Certainly CTOT is very prolific but it seemed to produce a mass then tailed off whereas the other two kept producing over a longer period.
JB.

Hi all,

Thanks for the advice is there a reason why Cherokee trail of tears bears that name, what I know of native american history it will not have a happy ending that's for sure


Regards

Kevin

Hi Kevin,
It seems that when the Cherokee were banished from their home lands these beans are one of the few things they could take with them. So the story goes.
JB.

ive grown cosse violette for the last couple of years and have no plans to change. its a purple bean that goes green on cooking.

Hi johnboy,
This is of seed saver exchange,

Given to SSE in 1977 by the late Dr. John Wyche, SSE member from Hugo, OK. Dr. Wyche’s Cherokee ancestors carried this bean over the Trail of Tears, the infamous winter death march from October 1838 in the Smoky Mountains to March 26, 1839 in Oklahoma, leaving a trail of 4,000 graves. Shiny jet-black seeds. Green 6" pods with purple overlay, good for snaps and dry beans. Pole habit, 85 days.

The following is of Google, makes for intresting reading, as they say money is the root of all evil or in this case Gold.

By the end of the eighteenth century, the Cherokee Nation had settled on land guaranteed to it in a 1791 treaty with the United States. The land was located in northwest Georgia, eastern Tennessee, and southwest North Carolina. The Cherokees established a governmental system similar to that of the United States and adopted a constitution that declared them a sovereign nation, meaning that they were not subject to the laws of any other state or nation. They lived peacefully until gold was discovered on their land in the late 1820s.

Because the United States wanted the gold, in 1830, Congress passed the Indian Removal Act, which President Andrew Jackson immediately signed into law. The Cherokees fought removal by taking the case to the United States Supreme Court, which ruled in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia (1831) against the Cherokees because they were a “domestic dependent nation” and not a sovereign nation. On appeal, the case was heard once again in the Supreme Court, Worcester v. Georgia (1832), and the ruling was for the Cherokees, making the removal laws invalid. To be removed, the Cherokees would have to agree to removal and sign a treaty.

The Cherokee Nation was divided between moving and staying put. Most supported Chief John Ross, who fought against removal; however, about 500 Cherokees supported Major Ridge, who represented the United States government and advocated removal. In 1835, Ridge and members of the Cherokee treaty party signed the Treaty of New Echota. The treaty traded Cherokee land east of the Mississippi River for land in Indian Territory (the area that is now Oklahoma), plus more than five million dollars and other benefits from the federal government. The treaty, which was ratified by the United States Senate, gave the U.S. government and Georgia justification to force almost 17,000 Cherokees from their land.

In 1838, the U.S. Army began evicting the Cherokees from their homeland. Several thousand were taken immediately to Indian Territory. Thousands more were held in makeshift forts, having to make do with minimal food and facilities, until they were forced to march to Indian Territory during the winter of 1938-39. Approximately 4,000 Cherokees died during the march. The journey that the Cherokees took across land became known as the Trail of Tears, or the “trail where they cried.”


Regards

Kevin

Hi Richard'
I have trialed Cosse Violette for a couple of years but they have never come up to my expectations as the yield has been erratic. The strange thing is that I gave a friend half a dozen plants and he came back to me a said how wonderful they were.
I went to have a look at his a sure enough his were magnificent yet from the same seed batch mine for two years were no good but in the same line of beans with others that were terrific. Strange or what!
Totally unexplainable.
JB.

My Cosse Violette were rubbish this year, although it could have been a lot to do with the weather. The best one for me for the past two years has been Blue Lake.

This year I grew runner beans (performed terribly in the heatwave. Flowers didn't set). I also grew Blue Lake & Cobra climbing French beans which performed well and Thompson & Morgan's Blauhilde (purple flowers, purple podded but turns green when cooked). These all survived well in the heatwave and set well because I learned that these French beans are self fertile and don't need bees to pollinate them, whereas as Runner beans do. I can recommend all three varieties, although I did find the Cobra harder to germinate in that some had to be sown a second time (but these were last year's seeds whereas the other two varieties were 2006.

ive also been growing blue lake along with the cosse violette, but wont bother with blue lake again. perhaps its the effect of different soils, we are on a thin clay soil on limestone, which does dry out badly in july and august.

Interesting point about Cobra, Primrose.
I had trouble with germinating some not very old Cobra seed and finished up growing only Sultana and Neckar Queen. I'll go back to Cobra though next year because it is so prolific once it gets into its stride and tastes excellent, also freezes well. It seems that you do need fresh seed to give it a good start.

John

Liked your post Kevin, might get me on my anti-American soap box again.
I've often wondered what would happen if the rest of the world was strong enough to force the US to establish a native American state - the old Cherokee nation wouldn't be a bad area to pick. Perhaps it would give Americans an inkling of an understanding of the Middle East.

Hi Geoff,

I did not set out be anti -American but only to find out the reason why Cherokee trail of tears beans were so called.


Regards

Kevin