Kitchen Garden Forum

I have grown tomato before, the ones i'm growing are from the seed of a tomato I bought and you already told me not to expect the same, however, i'm looking after these babies and hoping the effort was worthwhile.

What finally inspired me to grow tomato at a time I thought store-bought was getting really good was an article last September by Monty Don. He was so-so passionate about his tomatoes.

I've been buying tomato from the Co-op, grown in Wales. "Vine-tomato" what does that mean ? Pay extra for some green bits ? Anyway, they were very nice so what am I to expect when mine ripen.

Honestly, these Co-op tomatoes were lovely even though I do feel they take the mick by describing them as "vine tomato" then add a bit of vine just to reinforce. Tomato without the green bits are half the price and i'm going to get some compare but back to the question.

Have some store-bought tomato reached the dizzy hight's of Monty Dons mouthwatering descriptions. "Freshly picked, sliced in half then gently fried in some olive oil and garlic". Monty didn't elaborate on the source or taste of his garlic which is a bit of let-down now I pulled my autumn sown garlic.

Garlic doesn't make a difference ?

Hi Richard

I was given some tomato plants from my friend who collected them from her holiday lunches in Greece! They are beefsteak & on lottie & not treated as well as they should - but have toms on them as big as my 'grafted' toms in the greenhouse!

I don't think all of Europe uses F1 varieties like they do over here as they grow outside not in tunnels. (Well not all but she was on a little island).

Yep garlic & toms works as does lots of other herbs & stuff! Watched Rick Stein & lots of toms used in Indian cookery too! Doubt Monty was using Co-op though! x

Westi

Ricard with an H wrote:What finally inspired me to grow tomato at a time I thought store-bought was getting really good was an article last September by Monty Don. He was so-so passionate about his tomatoes.

Monty writing about tomatoes? That's all he seems to write about. Tomatoes. And hedges. But he's on the telly, isn't he. So he must know what he's talking about.

I remember a few years ago Monty recommending Shirley as his variety of choice. Shirley was the variety that the commercial growers got away with peddling to us for years — flavourless bags of water with indestructible tough skins. It was Shirley which gave the shop-bought tomato such a bad reputation. And now he's getting all loved-up with the supermarket tom, which is now deserving of praise because things have certainly changed. But no thanks to Mumbling Monty.

Ricard with an H wrote:I've been buying tomato from the Co-op, grown in Wales. "Vine-tomato" what does that mean ? Pay extra for some green bits ?

Yes. And no, because what you're paying for is a tomato that is really worth eating. But that green bit does give a good indication of freshness. A withered or yellowing calyx indicates a long-picked fruit. It also proves that the tomatoes have been left to fully develop and ripen on the plant, to reach their full flavour. It used to be that they were picked just as they were starting to ripen, and finished off in transit. Which works for bananas, but not really for tomatoes. There are some truly excellent tomatoes available in the shops these days, nearly as good as the ones my grandmother used to grow.

Westi wrote:
I don't think all of Europe uses F1 varieties like they do over here as they grow outside not in tunnels.

I'm still not sure about growing tomato, our tomato ripen at a time when the market is flooded with tomato, in my case it means investing in a greenhouse and though the greenhouse is useful for bringing young plant on early I did manage with a cold frame.

Felix wrote:But that green bit does give a good indication of freshness.

Thanks for that Felix, it never occurred to me that the vine parts left with the fruit were an indicator. I'm such a cynic at times.

Felix wrote:Mumbling Monty.

I don't/haven't watched enough TV to bump into Monty or any other gardening programs, nor do I buy magazines regularly and though I do enjoy the odd magazine I much prefer the hands-on approach of sharing with people like yourselves.

Those Co-op tomatoes I had in sandwiches for the last couple of days were lovely, it just caught me by surprise. Growing tomatoes is hardly labour intensive but like many plants i'm growing you daren't take your eye off them or have a few days away and rely on a neighbour so if store-bought are as good as those I tasted yesterday then it's hardly worth the effort when my partner doesn't eat tomato.

On the subject of difficult plants (I do try to avoid digressing) how about lavender. It's a very hardy and robust plant but i have never managed to keep lavender over the winter. Giving lavender the right amount of water it needs amounts to giving it none, or some. Particularly if kept in pots and I decided to keep it in pots so I can over-winter the plants. Both tomato and lavender amongst many other plants we grow are out of their natural environment so we have to tend to them like babies.

My tomato plants look scary, the remaining leaves are scrunched/curled but are staying green after I had some yellowing. Over-watering, under-watering, not enough feed, to much feed or far to hot. I do have a few set trusses but the whole process is getting scary and hardly worth the effort when I consider those Co-op tomatoes.

I shouldn't complain, everything else is growing nicely and the efforts with the cow-poo last autumn are showing nicely. The cow-poo fed raised bed is streets ahead of the bed I fed with store-bought fertiliser and so is the bed that gets a regular soaking with comfrey tea.

But it's all such a gamble, thanks goodness for the Co-op but they don't have sweet peas and my broad beans are already salad pickings.

How far away are your shops and how often do you go?
Our nearest shops are 5 miles away which we visit on Saturdays for our only paper of the week. Eating Tomatoes almost straight from the plant is a bit different.
The best way to save money on your shopping is to shop less often, unless you never buy anything not on your list, now be honest.

Geoff wrote:How far away are your shops and how often do you go?

We have shops in five miles and we have a Tesco mini store opposite the ferry.

Generally I rarely do any shopping, my partner commutes to her work weekly so picks up most of what we need on the Friday return along the M4.

I hate going shopping for oddments so would rather go without or have an alternative. We have extra fridge/freezer storage space for the very reason you're asking so yes I see your point and i'm already complacent about being able to lift a bit of salad and few spring onion.

I'll go without a paper for days because it's hardly a purposeful journey for the one item.

Ok, i'm convinced. greenhouse is back on the agenda and I would like to grow other stuff that needs a greenhouse even if I do give half of it away.

My only close neighbour is going into lettuce overload and if I don't pick my sweet peas faster and give some of those away they will stop flower. What a joy, sweet peas.

Hope you have a generator for the winter day early 2014 when the wind don't blow and those coal, oil & nuclear power stations shut down recently arent there to fill the supply gap.

Or can you eat a freezerful if the weather isnt well below zero.

Richard, you thought the co-op toms tasted good you just wait until the day you pick a beautifully ripe tomato, warm from the sun, from one of your cow-poo beds. A whole new explosion of taste will assault your taste-buds

My toms were late going in this year so still green marbles but have picked first cues. I grow Melen, Rocky, and a new one Iznik, all mini-cues which we love.

I love being able to pick dinner out of the garden and plot. Some excess veg I freeze but if I have excess toms I puree and bottle which gets around the 'all the electric going out' problem that Peter highlights. I also dehydrate excess fruit and store between layers of baking parchment in old ice cream tubs. Plums are amazing dried, very intense.

MW

Thanks for the encouragement and I don't want you to think i'm being negative. I'm very positive about this kitchen garden thing, i'm as positive as i've been over the last ten years reinstating wildflower into my plot.

Only yesterday I was invited to make recommendations to a neighbour who also has about an acre that has run wild. Right now there isn't any green or wildflower because the invasive species which look fine whilst under control had taken over. With a great amount of trepidation and respect I reminded him that it was the management of the hedgerows by farmers and local-authority that created the wildflower bank by twice a year cutting rather than just once a year. In my case I do a twice weekly tour with the glyphosate, knocking out stuff that quickly takes over.

Why am I telling you this, I have so much work if you include the repairs to paintwork and glazing that I really should only grow stuff i'm going to use a lot of and that is either expensive or scarce.

You've reminded me about the convenience and joy, thank-you.

Share some of my joy, it's all a bit packed i'm afraid. I didn't expect the performance, the remaining garlic had four more rows of onion and garlic as well as the ones I left in the ground. The carrots were getting choked.

OMG! Richard that looks great! Jealous person here!

Westi

I should be cock-a-hoop to have plots like those, Richard. Well done.

You are all very kind and whilst i'm very pleased and proud of this years results that were-not without scary moments being able to log-on to this forum, bounce my problems off you and share things has given me confidence to stick my chin out.

My own trials with different stuff I dug into the beds last year have given me more confidence by judging the results and they have differed.

Back to tomato and considering what I read from Monty Don i'm thinking it would take many years of growing and tasting the results together with considering the effects of changing weather to able to advise other without seeming to pontificate. I re-read the article, clearly Monty has passion for his tomatoes. He grows a variety of type and grows them in varying conditions accepting failure and trying again.

Would I be close if I suggested that whatever tomato you grew, you wish you had room to try another type.

I just bought myself another pack of five of those Co-op tomato grown in Cardiff and called 'Elegance'. Nice and thin outer with a lovely tasty juicy inner, I bet one of you lovely people are growing something just as good and even streets ahead but I need to start someplace so Co-op 'Elegance' is my benchmark.

Presumably I can save and dry the seeds for next year, I have only ever grown tomato from fresh seed by just drying the jelly into kitchen roll then sowing the kitchen roll with the seed embedded.

Try grafting Richard - at least you'll get a crop, regardless of weather! Search on here - loads of advice has been posted. OK I'm a cheat - I buy mine but it's first on my list of things to do when I retire! At least then you can try some of the continental ones that you enjoy on holidays

Westi

Grafting was done to give hybrid toms resistance to eelworm etc in soils that grew toms permanently. I have, in my time, grafted thousands of toms. The KNVF rootstock has to be sown a few days after the variety as they are quicker to germinate. Then you prick out a seedling of each into a 4" pot, wait for them to grow to about 5-6" high then chop off the top of the rootstock leaving one outward facing leaf. Take a couple of leaves off the variety to leave clear stem. Make a sloping cut downwards on the rootstock stem about an inch long and a matching upwards cut on the variety, slide them together sideways, don't try to lift one in over the other or the stem will snap. Bind them with a piece of that first aid tape that sticks only to itself. All the cuts should be made with a razor blade, not a knife which is too thick and blunt for this job (however sharp you think it is it will not be sharp enough for this and will damage too many cells). Within a couple of days they will be growing away nicely.
When planting out you cut the variety stem below the graft and you then have a variety on a resistant rootstock. The tape stays on and the stem will just push it apart as it grows.

I used to love this job, mostly because I got to sit in a glasshouse with my feet on the hotwater pipes in the middle of February!

MW

Grafting sounds like the sort stuff I could get into amongst other things, if-and-when I decide to invest in a proper greenhouse.

I am now considering a different site to the one I showed you photos of which get's very-very hot even when we don't have such hot summers. The alternative site would offer some shade from trees and more air movement, the proposed site at the back of my outbuilding is very sheltered.

I have always wanted to grow fushia along with different varieties of tomato.