Kitchen Garden Forum

A friend of mine has an allotment on a council owned site which is run by a committee . it has an old water supply system of lead piping which is nearing the end of it's days & they are costing out a new "blue pipe "system to replace it. has anyone any input regarding possible grants or funding that might be available from anywhere to help with costs. the local council only have a very limited budget so that avenue does not look promising . any sites recently renewed their supply & if so how was it funded ? any input gladly appreciated!

90% of the cost will be digging the pipe trench.
If you can do that yourselves, it has to be at least 50cm deep or people will pierce the pipe when digging, then the pipe is relatively cheap, as is doing the connections.

Old boy who was site agent before me added a trough, doing the pipe himself and last year an enthusiastic new tenant put fifteen hole in twenty-five foot of it, as it was within a spade depth on the edge of his plot.
Council came up and used their grave digging machine up the main cart-track for the replacement, so I don't know what it cost, but its been a b***** to mow the path since, despite driving my landrover up and down the trench mound every time it rains.

farmer jon. Humbly suggest they hire a proper machine from a good hire shop. This will not only dig the required depth, but can also be set for the size of the water pipe. Less upheaval and much quicker. You will probably get the cost of the hire back from selling the lead.

Hello Farmer John
I would say the committee needs to take a long hard look at their system. If it ain't broke why fix it? If they have taken advice from a 'professional' they will invariably told all sorts of horror stories about lead pipes. These professionals are really looking for extra work and eyeing up the high value of the old scrap lead. Don't be fooled by any 'building regs' stuff that you are given by these people - consult the regulations yourself to find out the true position (they're available online).
Old lead pipes are perfectly safe unless your water is very soft and then water companies add lime to the supply so that the water does not dissolve any lead. If you are in any doubt the environment people at the local council will test the supply for you at a reasonable charge.
I would doubt that there are long lengths of lead pipe underground - this old pipework is far more likely to be made of cast iron or steel with a final run of lead to the taps or stand pipes.
So finally I would say - find out as much as you can about the old water system before deciding to carry out any expensive and probably completely unnecessary work.

John

Hi John,
thanks for your input, the pipeline has been leaking in several places over the last few years & on excavation is badly corroded. the cost of water now is so expensive that they need to have a leak free system. I am aware of building regs re-depth etc. they want to pre-empt a system failure at the height of the growing season & the longer this goes on then the dearer the cost of replacement will be.

Hello FJ
Sounds as though the system is definitely clapped out - time for a replacement then!

John

Dig your own ditch and save yourself a fortune. The price you get for the lead should cover the rest. But is it all lead? If it's corroded, then it won't be. You often hear of "old lead pipes" which turn out to be steel, which they usually are if they have to cover any kind of distance. Lead pipes can be easily accidentally damaged, but they don't corrode and they don't wear out.

The very structure of lead piping makes them dubious from the day the pipe was made. As the pipes age the lead becomes crystalline in places and the pipe only has to freeze and a fracture will occur but generally it may not burst but become porous over a considerable length but not have sufficient pressure to come to the surface and this means that through what may be several hundred mini leaks it will lose vast amounts of water.
My water service is almost three quarters of a mile long and at the very beginning it has a meter. Prior to relaying in Alkathene I was losing over 100 gallons a day without there ever being a show on the surface.
Jon I suggest that you get together with with your other allotmenteers to dig the trench and MPDE blue piping is not that expensive and the modern joints are exceedingly easy to use and coupling to the meter is not difficult so I would do this ASAP. If you share the costs and you may even be able to retrieve the old lead pipe and sell to defray the costs.
The trench needs to be around three feet deep to avoid freezing although most water to allotments is turned off at the meter during the winter months.
Good luck in your endeavours.
JB.

Hi jb , thanks for the reply. that's exactly the problem,looks like it is losing water but not in any one place sufficient to show on the surface. water usually turned off from the end of BST until march. I have a lot of experience on plant including mini-hymacs so if we could get one cheap then I would have it dug out in a day & could be back-filled by "conscripted labour "..lol. one of the plot-holders brothers is a plumber & has offered to fit the joints & taps for free. slowly coming together - thanks to everybody for their input, greatly appreciated.