Kitchen Garden Forum

At the vets this morning with the dog for her annual visit & jabs. A flustered young mother with toddler in tow and carrying a cardboard box arrived while the receptionist was extracting money from me.
Asked what she had in the box she said.

"A pigeon, I rang the rspca and they suggested I bring it here."


This allotment renting, brassica growing, country boy, nearly offered to wring the pigeons neck.

Just how disneyfied has the average citizens view of our fluffy / feathered species become that they'll take a ruddy wild pigeon to the vets?

A former colleague once told me how much it had cost him to get his dog stitched back together after it cut a leg climbing into his tractor. I was shocked, and responded that he could have got a new dog for less than that. So no, I don't understand taking a wild pigeon to the vet. But I don't really "get" pet keeping either.

I think vets are obliged to treat wild animals free if someone finds an injured one and takes it in - just so nothing is left suffering because of cost.

I think she would have got short shrift from out rural vets! Even shorter shrift if she had turned up with a fox!

I recall the start of the recent series on urban foxes (Channel 4?) where a Manchester middle-class/hippy chicken keeper lost his birds to a fox. He called in the urban fox society (or some such loopy set-up). They caught the very mangy fox, took it to the vet, kept it in their sanctuary until it had recovered - then set it free exactly where it had been caught - much to the apparent delight of the chicken keeper

Needless to say I switched off and did not watch the rest of the series. It's this sort of nonsense which makes people believe that all life is "precious" (I won't go into the "God-given" thing). It isn't; life is the commonest thing in the world, except perhaps for death.

Just trying to work out how many people I've offended. I'll get my (rain)coat.

Well,I'm not offended Alan.Pigeons,foxes,rats and slugs and snails are well down the list of my favourite things.

Hi Alan

I too watched that program and the Muppet with fox which to was just nuts

One thing I did learn from the program was how the urban fox operates within his territory which I found very informative as I have lost far to many hens to Mr Fox They caught another fox fitted a radio collar on him then relocated him a couple of miles away from his home territory, after a couple of days he was back but the fascinating part of all this was watching how the fox moved about his patch, he had a routine which was basically a timetable and boy did he stick to it everyday the same route.

I now know this is how he got my hens, moved one barrel opening up a space of about 10 inches and he was in the barrel had not moved for about 18 months. He will not get in again unless he has a key to the lock

There's something heartwarming hearing about encounters with other species where we show another species compassion and even empathy. Pigeons have feelings, too. Whether the injured pigeon had any realistic chance of survival isn't the point, the fact that someone picked it up, cared and wanted to help it, is.

Nature's slipped way down humanity's list of favourite things. At least incidents like this do at least give hope that we can get it back where it belongs - at the top.

I agree, John, at least it shows compassion which is so often missing nowadays. By all means, stop pigeons, foxes, slugs or whatever from eating "our" food, but I think they DO have a right to live.

I don't think there's anything wrong with compassion for an injured creature whatever it may be. Not everyone has it in them to summarily dispatch a mortally wounded animal. I was brought up to respect life but also to know when prolonging it is cruel, as I child in the country I learned the hard way about life and death. However, that didn't stop me from trying to save something that had a chance of living and, I must say, our vet was always understanding and kind.
I am not one of the 'fluffy bunny brigade' and I have ended the life of birds and mammals when there has been no hope of survival, but it doesn't make me feel good.
The toddler who saw his mum take the time and trouble to try and help that pigeon may grow up to be a bit more compassionate perhaps

The more I read the more I am convinced that the answer to Peter's question in the title is "Yes".

"Compassion" and "the right to live" are purely human concepts and play no part in "Nature". Even the most cursory study of the natural world, and all gardeners are, by definition, students of nature, shows that there is no "right to live" but rather what might be called a "programming to live", or, if you like, a "will to survive". Survival is more often than not at the expense of the life or well-being of another creature/organism. Where is the "right to live" of the worm eaten by the blackbird, the chicken beheaded by the fox, the mouse swallowed alive by the snake? The list is almost endless, And as for "compassion"!

Please do not think I am advocating cruelty, rather the exercise of reason (call it common sense if you prefer). Compassion is indeed a desirable human quality, but reason is what defines humanity even more. Compassion has limits; which gardener has never killed a slug, an aphid, an asparagus beetle? Or was it done "humanely"?

This one could run and run. 'Compassion, reason, common sense' are all things that make us human and as humans we have the tremendous power and ability to take or save life.
It's thanks to reason that we can discuss such things even if we don't totally agree.

Being humane is what I aim for, but taking a vegetable garden pest to the vet is not in my repertoire.

The Disney view of wildlife will have people taking sewer rats to the vet when the neighbours have laid poison to deal with an infestation.

Treat all animals with respect and compassion, that extends to killing them without suffering if found injured beyond unaided survival. That includes knowing your limits, a mxymatosised rabbit I can deal with, a deer, fox or badger hit by a car I cannot, so a vet would be called.

Anything eating my crops is discouraged by netting or killed ny slug pellets. I'm fortunate that we don't have rabbits or deer on the site. Foxes get a clod of soil slung at them and as a result don't sunbathe on my plot, they prefer others where they're admired.

If I get rats in my garden I shoot them with my air rifle, I avoid poison because I have a dog, rats arrive because of neighbours who over enthusiastically feed birds. Rats I can shoot because they're down on the ground so no danger of pellets leaving my property. If I had acres of land I'd probably have a shotgun (farmer peter) and thus be equipped to deal with pests like pigeons & rabbits, but I draw the line at raising stuff purely for shooting, e.g. pheasants.

What would you do in this situation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukYJs8P1 ... ata_player
I don't think I could stand there filming.

I wouldn't do anything WestHamRon . The fact that someone is filming it has nothing to do with what is happening which is an animal doing what it has to do. If there were no wildlife photographers, natural scientists etc. we would be as ignorant as we were at the beginning of the last century and the world would be a very different place. I'm sorry, but I don't see what this has to do with the original post.

WestHamRon wrote:What would you do in this situation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukYJs8P1 ... ata_player
I don't think I could stand there filming.

Personally I think there is no difference between that clip and a wildlife photographer filming lions bringing down a young zebra. It's nature. The hunter feeding on its' prey and sure as eggs is eggs you wouldn't get me interfering.

As for the OP, I wouldn't take an injured wild pigeon to a vet because they are classed as vermin and carry disease (and yes I know other things carry disease as well). It would be despatched and may even turn up on the dinner table

VPM
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