Kitchen Garden Forum

I've just started crafting the new veg patch and am going to have 10 new veg beds. As the ground has never been anything other than lawn since at least the 1960's i've decided that it's crucial that i double dig (i think that's the correct term - 2 spades depth down) each of the beds.

starting on one of the beds I've removed the turf and have dug one spades depth down at one end and have then started on the second spades depth (keeping the top and sub soil seperate).

The soil (both sub and top) is very stony and i've only got about half a spades depth into the sub soil and there are huge pieces of rock and stone and the digging is very hard. I'm not adverse to hard work but wondered if there were always huge shelves of stone at a certain level in the subsoil?

Also when we talk about spades depth is that litrerally the depth of the spade you are using or an indiactor of a more exact measurement?

How deep is the topsoil Smurfy? If there is not much depth of topsoil an altternative might be to dig out the topsoil from the planned paths and add it to the top of the beds, then add a good few layers of home made compost / manure / mushroom compost, top with straw or autumn leaves and leave overwinter for the worms to dig, airate and digest for you. You won't grow much next year if you injure your back, it sounds quite daunting. Less digging would be required and this way you bury the problems and weed seeds and add depth to your topsoil. Also if your plot is subject to flooding in winter any excess water would lay in the paths and not erode your beds.

Afternoon Smurfy, if the subsoil is as bad as that, i would only single dig it. You will be better off increasing the soil depth by adding compost or manure over the coming years. It's suprising how quickly the depth of soil increases, if you can add goodly amounts of organic material.

I'd dig out the initial spade depth as you are doing and remove all roots from it and as many stones as you can manage. Then try and break up the next layer as best you can perhaps with a fork, removing the worst of the stones, just getting good cracks into it with a pick would help. Sometimes the hard stony layer can be quite thin, a pan I think it is called, and if you can break that up it will sort out any drainage problems you might have. Any organic matter you can get hold of mixed in to this lower layer or at worst put on top of it will work wonders. The turf you have taken off could be chopped into this as well. If you have plenty of well rotted material you could mix some of that with the top spit as you put it back. My beds are 10' wide and I find I need three wheelbarrows when I deep dig, two for the soil from the first trench and one for carting organic matter. I find digging much easier if you are neat using a line to dig along. I set the line, use the spade to make a vertical slot along the line, then dig at right angles to the line. That way you can take small or big bites and if it is really difficult use a fork.
Remember, if you are tempted by the new fangled approach of dumping stuff on top surrounded by boards, digging has been going for a long time because it works. I can't see subsistence peasants adopting a method that appears to be more work if it wasn't rewarding.

Thanks for your replies guys. i haven't got loads of organic matter at the moment (moved house 3 months ago and couldn't bring the old compost bin with me).

I think i've said I've currently got 1 1/2 spades depth so it sounds from your replies like that should be enough. I'm digging with a double act of a pick axe and a spade at the moment as the ground has been a lawn so not only is it very stony but it's also very compacted too.

I recently dug out a small (2ft by 3ft) traingular bed 1 spades depth and took 8 buckets of stones from that as i sieved the (nice looking) soil back in. I think i might sieve the soil back in to these beds too. I'm planning on this as a long term growing space and therefore think it's worth the work to get it right first time. the other thing, if i understand your suggestion correctly OH, is that it will then lower the level of the soil somewhat (taking out the stones that is) so that there will be space to add all the lovely homemade compost etc without raising the soil level to the stage i need to put supports around the edges.

I'll try and post some pictures soon for comments and suggestions.

Thanks again

Smurfy