Government consultation on phasing out peat use

[Compo]

I must be a crap gardener, have been using either westland peat free compost or B & Q oeat free for four or five years now, the advantage is that when it is at the stage of life when peat based composts start to cake and the water runs off the top, peat free stuff is still loos and not caked.

I have grown barassica seedlings, salads, beans (the broad beans i planted out today in peat free from modules had a superb root structure)

It really is not fair either people to enter into this 'John Walker Bashing' he is entitled to his opinion, he cites it as strongly and with as much evidence as Alan and Johnboy do, but it seems ok that they folk are rude to him, some of the texts read as patronising bordering on rude.
I expect I will get a caution for saying this, but it it really is how the postings read no matter which side of the peat argument you sit on, I am sorry but sometimes..........well..................make your own minds up. I think the style of grammar could be less agressive sometimes.

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,
I do not see why you should get a caution for saying what you have.
Because I and many people dislike the approach taken by John Walker who, as a writer, seems to depend on the postings of what other people say and use very few of his own words.
This topic could have been a very good point to debate but we do not want to hear what the RSPB et al say we want things to come from John Walker in John Walkers own words and then it might begin to be a debate.
You mention B&Q peat free compost but for me to actually visit a B&Q entails a minimum of 55 mile round trip or a 65 round trip or a 70 mile round trip and the only peat free I can find and have purchased has turned out to be absolute rubbish. For me a trip to B&Q will use more carbon than saving by using non peat products. Westland products seems to be a myth in this area.
I rely on my own Comfrey based compost for most things but there are certain times when my compost is not right for the job and I still have a stock of Peat left over from when I closed my Nursery and then that Peat gets used. I probably have enough Peat to see me out but if a ban is put on the use of Peat what do you think I am going to do. Do you think that I am going to sit and look at it?
The amount of Peat available for digging in England, for this is where the DEFRA ban will be imposed, is totally insignificant in world terms and to
try and tell people that the countryside is being ravished is an entire overstatement and can only be termed are emotive rubbish!
When a question is asked about the differences between Sphagnum Moss Peat and Sedge Peat there was no response from John Walker who is the person posing the threads here on this forum. Alan has yet to get a reply from the RSPB and I doubt that he will ever hear from them.
These Lobby Groups think that they can make as many statements as they want without ever having to answer any challenge to things the many they say and especially the statistics used.
So with John Walker putting himself forward as the representative of the anti-peat movement on this forum and not using his own words only lamely offering everybody else's is it any wonder why people on this forum get a tad annoyed. Me included!
JB.

[Compo]

Sorry JB its not all about you......your peat......your trip to B and Q etc....read your own words and they are all as opinionated as JW's are. The argument will rage, just asking people to be nice to each other, if Peat were banned (I am not saying it should be - Just limited where a lot has been dug already) - I am certain we would all manage very well.

CoMpO

[richard p]

theres abig difference between jb and jw's opinions, one is based on personal experience over many years as a grower, the other apear to be a rehash ,or even cut and paste, from "conservationist" propaganda... with little knowledge or understanding of the issues he's pontificating about..

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,
I appreciate what you have said. My posting was not meant to be self centred but merely to explain that people like me who live rurally and do not have the facilities you obviously enjoy.
We have moderators to police this forum and you are not a moderator and surely before making such a posting you should have voiced your concerns to a moderator. They are the judges not you. If you think that you are a canditate as a moderator speak to the KG Admin.
There are many things that could be said that are not so I suggest it gets left as it is right now!
JB.

[Compo]

I am not a moderator Johnboy, I just have a view and think I am more than capable of knowing when the debate becomes 'unsavoury'. The moderators are reading this intently I am sure, I have the right to my say and feel as I have always felt that 'manners maketh man'. I have received several private messages of support of people who dont post any more because once they have been told that they do not accept a certain party line, they feel they are hounded off. I simply ask for a bit of refrain in a place where I regularly take a 'literary walk', and ask for people to have an ability to see both sides of any argument. Whilst not a moderator, if we were all sat around a table having this debate face face. I would not expect to have a moderator say 'I say thats a bit out of order' it would be down to the participants in the conversation. I am entitled to an opinion not only on the content of the postings but if I feel as reasonable human being that there is a bit of unsavouriness in people's tone that is my right also to comment. That is my view. I will happily read replies all day long, but feel it is unwaveringly right that people. Once again you are trying to tell me as you tell others not only what they can say but how they can say it.

There are many things that could be said that are not so I suggest it gets left as it is right now!
JB.

Your point of view Sir is valid, I sometimes wish you would put it in a more friendly way.

'Fed up from Somerset' certainly giving this thread a break for a while.

[snooky]

I take it that this consultation exercise for the banning of the use of peat is aimed at England only and that Wales,Scotland and N.I.being devolved aren't involved and might well consult on this issue at a later date.
Is it that a ban is being looked at for the extraction of peat in English peatlands and a ban,total,on the use of peat in England,or just a ban on the extraction and that peat from other countries i.e.Ireland can be sold and used in England?

[alan refail]

I take it that this consultation exercise for the banning of the use of peat is aimed at England only and that Wales,Scotland and N.I.being devolved aren't involved and might well consult on this issue at a later date.

You are quite correct on that, Snooky. See my earlier post:

viewtopic.php?p=90531#p90531

A Scottish government representative said: "We believe that there is a case for phasing out the use of peat in horticulture but are still considering how this could be done."

The Welsh Assembly Government plans to reduce peat usage across horticulture, heating and electricity generation but is not currently considering a complete phase-out like planned by Defra.

A representative said: "Peat extraction for use in the horticultural industry is not actually significant in Wales because we have few lowland raised bogs or fens and those that do exist are predominantly under environmental or conservation protection."

There are currently no plans in Northern Ireland to reduce or phase out the horticultural use of peat.

Is it that a ban is being looked at for the extraction of peat in English peatlands and a ban,total,on the use of peat in England,or just a ban on the extraction and that peat from other countries i.e.Ireland can be sold and used in England?

The answer to this is rather unclear, to say the least. Despite the bandying about of the word "ban" by journalists and some environmental campaigners, the title of the Defra consultation is "Consultation on reducing the horticultural use of peat in England" Make of that what you will.

[Johnboy]

Hi Alan,
Although the DEFRA paper says consultation they have already given the times for gardeners and the horticultural trades when it will be illegal to use Peat. So really consultation is not really the word they should be using.
I am beginning to think that the whole anti-peat debacle is fast turning into a colossal waste of public funds.
England with its very meagre reserves of available Peat by comparison with Scotland and Northern Ireland. There is very little Peat in England that is actually commercially viable and the rest it is not possible to extract so why all this fuss and palaver!
Wales does not have any Peat extraction for Horticultural use.
Scotland is looking for ways to present it to the people and Northern Ireland has no intentions of ceasing Peat digging.
When you consider that Sweden, Finland and the ROI are burning thousands of tons of Peat to produce electricity every day it shows you what a petty campaign the anti-peat lobby are pursuing.
There is no EU law that prevents plants, grown in a Peat medium on the continent, to be imported into England and continental growers would surely take legal action against either the EU or UK parliament if an attempt of a ban were imposed.
What it actually means is that Peat extracted in Northern Ireland can be exported to say, the Netherlands, used as bedding medium for the millions of bedding plants and exported to England whilst English growers will not be able to so. This is simple never going to be correct and before it goes any further I feel DEFRA, who admit that their statistics are not correct, should cease the whole charade.
The way I see it is that Global Warming and Carbon Storage in Peat has very little to do with the campaign it is merely a false case because the amount of Carbon that can be stored in lowland Peat is very minimal and in a global terms totally insignificant considering peat used in other countries for the production of electricity who have absolutely no intentions of ceasing their operations.
The more you look at the anti-peat campaign the more of a farce it becomes!
JB.

[alan refail]

Somerset Peat Producers put their view on Defra's proposals

http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/envi ... ticle.html